Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

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xinam
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#101

Post by xinam »

FCM415 wrote: I can agree with your post except for the part in bold...
Probably a poor choice of words I'll admit. Maybe I should have said " giving OP a hard time" or something. I dont feel like the guy was "abused" rather opposite, for the what, when and where I think he was treated pretty respectfully even though he chose such a strong title for the post.

As far as Mr Stamp, I for one appreciate the work he puts in on the various areas of this forum and his own. I see nothing wrong with being opinionated, however I do tire of the endlessness of the convincing or refusal to let another have their own opinion. I've learned over the years just to let people be with their opinions. Most times its just not worth arguing, unless the end result is likely to do harm in some way. OP is educated on the lint issue and his fingers will be safe, I don't see anything left to discuss in this thread :)
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wrdwrght
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#102

Post by wrdwrght »

suv44 wrote:In due time I will respond when I am ready. I have a lot more to say.
Sounds ominous.
-Marc (pocketing an M4 Sage5 today)

“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
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Ankerson
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#103

Post by Ankerson »

xinam wrote:
FCM415 wrote: I can agree with your post except for the part in bold...
Probably a poor choice of words I'll admit. Maybe I should have said " giving OP a hard time" or something. I dont feel like the guy was "abused" rather opposite, for the what, when and where I think he was treated pretty respectfully even though he chose such a strong title for the post.

As far as Mr Stamp, I for one appreciate the work he puts in on the various areas of this forum and his own. I see nothing wrong with being opinionated, however I do tire of the endlessness of the convincing or refusal to let another have their own opinion. I've learned over the years just to let people be with their opinions. Most times its just not worth arguing, unless the end result is likely to do harm in some way. OP is educated on the lint issue and his fingers will be safe, I don't see anything left to discuss in this thread :)
I think Sal spelled it out pretty well as far as the lint goes and the pull through sharpener. :)

So lets hope the OP learns from the experience. :)
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On Edge
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#104

Post by On Edge »

OK, so we can reasonably surmise that the OP was new to knives and needed to be "Edge-U-Cated" ... and so perhaps it's not too much of a stretch to surmise that he is also new to interpersonal exchanges and the proper way to man up and own your mistakes ... so I will venture to "Edge-U-Cate" him further, by example; to wit ...

"Thank you Sal. Thank you for taking the time to personally address my issue, and for having the class to give me the benefit of the doubt, vice throwing me out on my ... ear." ... "And thank you for waiving the return postage and for cleaning and sharpening my knife, free of charge; I really appreciate that."

"And Charlynn, I apologize for becoming irate and insinuating that you or the company would not stand behind your product, or even consider doing something underhanded, even if you did have a whole $5 to gain in exchange for $65 worth of labor and administrative effort .... my bad."

"And finally, to my fellow forumites, I stand humbly before you and admit to my error in judgement, and ask forgiveness for any heinous references made to your beloved brand, nay; your "Cult of Consummate Cutlery" ... "I only hope that in time I can redeem myself and be counted among you."

... you payin' attention here, suv? ... suv? .... Beuller?!

Oy.

~ edge
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#105

Post by Knutty »

On Edge wrote:OK, so we can reasonably surmise that the OP was new to knives and needed to be "Edge-U-Cated" ... and so perhaps it's not too much of a stretch to surmise that he is also new to interpersonal exchanges and the proper way to man up and own your mistakes ... so I will venture to "Edge-U-Cate" him further, by example; to wit ...

"Thank you Sal. Thank you for taking the time to personally address my issue, and for having the class to give me the benefit of the doubt, vice throwing me out on my ... ear." ... "And thank you for waiving the return postage and for cleaning and sharpening my knife, free of charge; I really appreciate that."

"And Charlynn, I apologize for becoming irate and insinuating that you or the company would not stand behind your product, or even consider doing something underhanded, even if you did have a whole $5 to gain in exchange for $65 worth of labor and administrative effort .... my bad."

"And finally, to my fellow forumites, I stand humbly before you and admit to my error in judgement, and ask forgiveness for any heinous references made to your beloved brand, nay; your "Cult of Consummate Cutlery" ... "I only hope that in time I can redeem myself and be counted among you."

... you payin' attention here, suv? ... suv? .... Beuller?!

Oy.

~ edge
Unnecessary crap like this serves only to instigate.
"We have more metal parts fail than plastic parts. Modern plastics are tough. 'Feeling cheap' may be a false perception and one might need more education. We rarely get a FRN knife back with handle problems and we have millions of them out in daily use. " --Sal Glesser
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#106

Post by bearfacedkiller »

Why is this thread still going?
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
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hunterseeker5
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#107

Post by hunterseeker5 »

Cliff Stamp wrote:
hunterseeker5 wrote:So I'm a bit baffled by this.
It is very easy to judge someone at fault for being what we would conclude is obvious ignorance because we, the enlightened few, have the knowledge. However it is rare that the same individuals would feel that it is ok to reverse the situation upon them if they failed to be aware of what was "obvious" to others......

No no no, pardon me. What was baffling me wasn't that someone couldn't figure out lint was caught in their lock mechanism, what baffled me was how the OP was so certain it was NOT that. While your argument holds to an extent, that is to say someone with less knowledge wouldn't recognize something which would be obvious to someone with more knowledge/experience, I would think that would put you in a position of struggling to refute the assertions of the person in the stronger position. I would liken it to people who go out and spot UFOs and then claim to have seen aliens; what they are seeing is right in the title: UNIDENTIFIED. Hence if I had an unidentified flying lock failure, and someone who was experienced with locks told me that it was a broken lock bar, I wouldn't be very likely to claim that was untrue and in fact it was aliens interfering with my knife.

This is why I didn't come out to attack the OP, or call him names, or tell him he was a douche for whining on the spyder forums, or anything else like that. I simply wanted to give him a chance to rationally address how/why he thought his lock might have failed as he clearly rejected the explanation given by the person who fixed it. I'm perfectly willing/happy to hear a technical argument from his perspective. In lieu of that however, there is little else to do than simply accept the technical explanation given by the only other person who assessed the problem.

And yes, I have been in the reverse position where I've done something to a Spyder which produced shall we say sub-optimal performance, and been accosted for it on the forums. I did however have at least some sort of reason for why I took the actions I did, and why I expected the outcome to be different. From there, the debate becomes (IMO) much more productive because you and whoever you're debating with (ideally) get to assess the basis of the assumptions and hopefully reach greater understanding if not consensus. A perfect example would be the corrosion of the stop pin on one of my Para2s. I had assumed, mistakenly, that a simple soap and water cleaning would not cause corrosion of a tight-tolerance critical part, because A) it was recommended by Spyderco as the preferred cleaning method, B) such corrosion would negatively affect the function of the knife, cutting short its useful life and, C) I assumed it would be irrational to produce a knife with a premium stainless steel blade but have the rest of the knife be highly susceptible to corrosion. A number of members on the Spyderco forum disagreed with this assessment, making a variety of arguments, including things like it is irrational to clean your knife with soap and water as that promotes corrosion and that some other PM2 stop pins have prematurely corroded so it is the expected performance of the knife. As it turns out, Charlynn thought somewhat more along my lines, and indicated to me this was not the expected performance of the knife and the stop pin is being replaced as we speak. (she is a superstar BTW, just a little sidenote) This sort of exchange however I think may have gone very differently had I simply said that the stop pin rusted and this is bullsh*t or Sal is an asshat or something else like that. So this is why I think that the mechanism/reasoning is important, as it sort of cuts through some aspects of personal feeling/gut reaction and can get you down to the meat of the problem.

An I being unreasonable? Are my expectations off? Or was the intent of my previous post simply not as obvious as I had thought and would have liked?
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On Edge
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#108

Post by On Edge »

Knutty wrote: Unnecessary crap like this serves only to instigate.
Pardon me.

I felt that since OP didn't see fit to recognize the folks that bent over backwards, perhaps it should be pointed out to him. Along with an example of how it might be done. Trust me, if I was flamin' him, it would've been quite apparent.

But your point is noted. Nothing more from me.
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#109

Post by GoldenSpydie »

One more vote for this thread to end...I think that everything useful that can be said, has been said. The OP is not posting anymore, and I don't know who we are even trying to convince at this point. IMO, this thread has gone on ad nauseam.
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sal
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#110

Post by sal »

suv44 wrote:In due time I will respond when I am ready. I have a lot more to say.
Thanx much for chiming in SUV. Hope to hear from you in time.

sal
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Evil D
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#111

Post by Evil D »

akaAK wrote:
Philo Beddoe wrote:Why is my Delica getting lint in it?

Image
Based on Evid D's self reported OCD I think you just gave him a heart attack.

In the grand scheme of things I thought this whole discussion was pretty tame.
Image
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#112

Post by Bodog »

sal wrote:Hi Evil,

The incident was a petty problem, but Suv had a strong angry reaction, which is not good for anyone to have to go through. My approach is usually, "Whatever the problem, education is the solution". I felt that his knife experience was limited and his anger towards our company, ignorant or not, was important enough to get involved.

If I'm dealing with a buttnugget, I usually just tell them to go away. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I beleive that he believed that it wasn't possible for lint to stop a lock. I had a hard time with that when I first learned about it. I agree with the poster that said "Click or inspect". His knife is going out tomorrow, lock works well, newly and professionally resharpened and I think he will figure it out. He purchased a Spyderco because he specifically wanted a Spyderco, or he would have a different brand. He was pleased with his purchase until his lock failed. I'd like to restore his confidence in our brand.

We're all students and we're all teachers.

sal
I'm completely serious here, this is some Zen master level stuff.
They who dance are thought mad by those who do not hear the music.
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#113

Post by Bodog »

sal wrote:
suv44 wrote:In due time I will respond when I am ready. I have a lot more to say.
Thanx much for chiming in SUV. Hope to hear from you in time.

sal

And this is over the top level stuff here. A knife making Buddha. The way a river flows around a rock. No hurry, no rigid definition, no fighting it. There just "is" a rock. Flow around it. No big deal. The river flows, it's up to the rock to change its way. No ifs, ands, or buts. All the river does is flow. Zen. I for one know my life would be easier if I could accept that way of thought.

Full disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm talking about.
They who dance are thought mad by those who do not hear the music.
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On Edge
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#114

Post by On Edge »

sal wrote:" … We're all students and we're all teachers."

sal
And clearly I was a student for this outing. I apologize for 'buying in' to the negativity and potentially fueling it …

~ edge
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#115

Post by ChrisinHove »

[quote="xinam"][quote="FCM415"]

Deleted - too far off topic
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Ankerson
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#116

Post by Ankerson »

On Edge wrote:
sal wrote:" … We're all students and we're all teachers."

sal
And clearly I was a student for this outing. I apologize for 'buying in' to the negativity and potentially fueling it …

~ edge

Everyone has to start someplace. :)

All of us were new at one point to knives, it's a learning process that never stops no matter who we are or how long we have been into it.

There will always be something new or different to learn, and nobody knows everything.

That's why from my 1st post in this thread I wasn't negative, it was more teaching as in yes lint can be a factor and I left it at that.

The OP has a bit to learn, hopefully he will stick around and both learn and contribute as time goes on and learn constraint, that's something I actually need to practice as I sometimes can get more abrasive from time to time.
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#117

Post by Cliff Stamp »

hunterseeker5 wrote:
What was baffling me wasn't that someone couldn't figure out lint was caught in their lock mechanism, what baffled me was how the OP was so certain it was NOT that. While your argument holds to an extent, that is to say someone with less knowledge wouldn't recognize something which would be obvious to someone with more knowledge/experience, I would think that would put you in a position of struggling to refute the assertions of the person in the stronger position.
The assumption you are making here is that :

-the OP is wrong
-the response is right

and, this is the critical part, this is obvious to both parties. Just think about if it is sensible to make that kind of conclusion in general. Look at it as Rawls does for example in how he describes how to do just/fair analysis.

I ask you again, have you really never been in a situation where something went wrong with a new purchase you made, you were told that you were part of the problem, and the reason provided made absolutely no sense to you at all based on what you knew and this lead you to being frustrated and suspect you may be given a cop-out? In this position is it then any way at all sensible for the person to keep lamenting your ignorance and further for this to be joined by ~100 replies of the same as they called in friends and family and pointed our your ignorance in public.

I was in a computer store today and watched a customer bring in a computer they just bought and be very irate as it didn't work. The guy behind the counter brought it in back,fired it up and it worked fine. The client then was adamant that it didn't work and didn't accept the fact that it worked for the guy there. They were using far stronger language than was used by the OP and if the clerk had called out the rest of the guys who worked there and gangpiled the client then that likely would not have resolved the problem, in fact the manager would likely fire them for it.

I know the clerk and I walked over and asked the client if I could help. I asked them a few basic questions and determined a likely reason which was essentially their fault and something they were ignorant of something that was very obvious to me. Now since they were not freaking at me it was pretty easy to be neutral.

--

As for the whole sports bar analogy, if you have issues with MMA for example, and you want a rational discussion it is likely that it would not be productive to go into a bar playing Jones vs DC and expect productive criticism. What your argument actually concludes is that for people to have rational and unbiased discussion of Spyderco products they should not do it on the Spyderco forum.
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FCM415
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#118

Post by FCM415 »

I'm just a mental midget. What do I know.
Last edited by FCM415 on Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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FCM415
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#119

Post by FCM415 »

Cliff's right, you all bashed OP.
Last edited by FCM415 on Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

#120

Post by Donut »

SUV, when you get the knife back and use it. I would be interested in hearing how well it is working for you and if you have any issues with the knife.

It would probably be best to make a new thread for that and leave this thread behind us. :)
-Brian
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