Just steels...

[Ankerson]

More on topic...

2. Smaller EDC fixed blade which can handle some light prying and some heavy duty slicing, moderate corrosion prevention:

Kinda of interesting really as I have this small fixed blade, about 3" blade and very thin blade stock at .070" that I have been using for the past 4+ months to cut anything that really needed to be cut. That's anything and everything around the house from opening packages to assorted other things out in the garage and even cutting tape and cardboard up against steel, haven't touched the edge on the knife in over 4 months.....

I was looking at it the other day and cleaned off the blade with some WD-40 and was checking the edge, still very sharp with a lot of bite so I checked the sharpness on phone book paper and it sliced it with no problem.....

What is the steel?

It's Zapp A11.... Like CPM 10V......

[Steel_Drake]

Those are made in Japan so other than using a Japanese steel it just won't happen....

SB is a Japanese steel....

That's something that has been pointed out a number of times before... A large number of times.....

You are, of course, quite right, but some of the steels listed were Japanese.

More broadly I meant to indicate the kind of model I'd like to see rather than just the Caly and Delica specifically.

Something like the Native, Domino, Dice, Sage, etc. would be my aesthetic preference. A 3-3.5" blade, 3mm or less blade thickness, and a full flat grind.

[Ankerson]

Those are made in Japan so other than using a Japanese steel it just won't happen....

SB is a Japanese steel....

That's something that has been pointed out a number of times before... A large number of times.....

You are, of course, quite right, but some of the steels listed were Japanese.

More broadly I meant to indicate the kind of model I'd like to see rather than just the Caly and Delica specifically.

Something like the Native, Domino, Dice, Sage, etc. would be my aesthetic preference. A 3-3.5" blade, 3mm or less blade thickness, and a full flat grind.

Sal said something about a Mule Team in AEB-L sometime in the future.... They already made a Mule Team in 52100....

And they used AUS-8 and AUS-6 for a very long time, around the same performance level as most of the steels you mentioned....

They also use N690 in a few models....

So I am not sure what the drive is here, it sure isn't about performance....

[Steel_Drake]

Sal said something about a Mule Team in AEB-L sometime in the future.... They already made a Mule Team in 52100....

And they used AUS-8 and AUS-6 for a very long time, around the same performance level as most of the steels you mentioned....

They also use N690 in a few models....

So I am not sure what the drive is here, it sure isn't about performance....

As I've said, I don't want to get into any sort of debate about the performance of these kinds of steels versus the kinds you happen to prefer. I don't think that's productive, nor do I think it would be conducive to the goal of getting a model or two made in the kinds of steels I'm interested in.

I think that there being people who want a folder model or two in these kinds of steels, certainly at least enough to support sprint runs, is enough of a reason for Spyderco to make a few.

What more of a reason would Sal need to at least do a sprint run or two in something like AEB-L, 52100, 1095, 01, etc. at high hardness than the fact that he could sell them to customers who want a folder in that kind of a steel, who currently have limited options in the Spyderco line-up for folding knives?

I simply don't understand the problem.

[Bugout Bill]

So I am not sure what the drive is here, it sure isn't about performance....

Please elaborate.

[Ankerson]

Sal said something about a Mule Team in AEB-L sometime in the future.... They already made a Mule Team in 52100....

And they used AUS-8 and AUS-6 for a very long time, around the same performance level as most of the steels you mentioned....

They also use N690 in a few models....

So I am not sure what the drive is here, it sure isn't about performance....

As I've said, I don't want to get into any sort of debate about the performance of these kinds of steels versus the kinds you happen to prefer. I don't think that's productive, nor do I think it would be conducive to the goal of getting a model or two made in the kinds of steels I'm interested in.

I think that there being people who want a folder model or two in these kinds of steels, certainly at least enough to support sprint runs, is enough of a reason for Spyderco to make a few.

What more of a reason would Sal need to at least do a sprint run or two in something like AEB-L, 52100, 1095, 01, etc. at high hardness than the fact that he could sell them to customers who want a folder in that kind of a steel, who currently have limited options in the Spyderco line-up for folding knives?

I simply don't understand the problem.

I don't see the point.... That's the problem.....

What do you think the so called high hardness ranges are going to be?

52100 would be the highest in that bunch realistically.... The rest would be 61 or under..... Realistically maybe even lower.....

Unless you throw A2 in there....

[Ankerson]

So I am not sure what the drive is here, it sure isn't about performance....

Please elaborate.

It means exactly what it says....

That's as straight forward as it can get...

[Bugout Bill]

So I am not sure what the drive is here, it sure isn't about performance....

Please elaborate.

It means exactly what it says....

That's as straight forward as it can get...

That isn't straightforward, it is innuendo.

[Bodog]

If you follow Ankerson's interests via what he chooses to test and how, he's all about wear resistance and knives that cut forever. I'm assuming when he says performance, he's talking about a steel that can be ground as thin as possible and still hold an edge after cutting miles worth of cardboard, which is very hard on an edge. When you say AEB-L has better performance than 10V, you may be measuring performance differently than him. Maybe you can discuss what your performance parameters are and how they're different than his.

So I am not sure what the drive is here, it sure isn't about performance....

Please elaborate.

It means exactly what it says....

That's as straight forward as it can get...

That isn't straightforward, it is innuendo.

[JD Spydo]

The Delica is a Japan only product atm so I doubt it's a good platform. I would like to see a model created or used similar to how the Mules are but in a folder.

Don't we already do that with the C-36 Military model to a certain degree? Because I have 3 of them with all different blade steels and I know there's at least 12 to 15 of the C-36 Military model in different blade steels. And I actually think the Military model is ideal for that purpose>> even though I would like to see them do that with my beloved Ayoob model.

I totally agree with Cliff's statement that there are certain principles in metallurgy that are "matter of fact" rather than being subjective or comparative. It goes with the old saying "you can't make a silk purse from a pig's ear" :rolleyes:

I'm sure there are factors like heat treating, cryo quenching, work hardening ect, ect,. But if the steel is not of good quality alloy you are pretty much limited to what you can do with each steel. Not to mention "custom versus commercial" manufacture.

This a great, thought provoking thread and I haven't seen a thread with as much great input as I have on this one in quite some time. I hope some day we can have the same chat with other exotic blade materials some day.>> JD :spyder: O

[Ankerson]

If you follow Ankerson's interests via what he chooses to test and how, he's all about wear resistance and knives that cut forever. I'm assuming when he says performance, he's talking about a steel that can be ground as thin as possible and still hold an edge after cutting miles worth of cardboard, which is very hard on an edge. When you say AEB-L has better performance than 10V, you may be measuring performance differently than him. Maybe you can discuss what your performance parameters are and how they're different than his.

Please elaborate.

It means exactly what it says....

That's as straight forward as it can get...

That isn't straightforward, it is innuendo.

Well yeah, unless I wanted a heavy duty field knife that I could beat through rocks etc if I wanted too, or hammer through the breast bone on an ELK or something to that effect...

I have everything from that to thin slicers so I am actually pretty realistic as in different steels for different uses...

But the steel choices have to make some kind of since based on what the knives are supposed to do and the performance level based on the intended use.

I wouldn't want a heavy duty knife that snaps in half or chips out too easy or a cutter that goes butter knife dull in a few mins....

[Laethageal]

For those it might imterest, the only AUS8 knife I have used is klein with hardness of 58-59. That thing came out of the box sharp, but not as much as any Spyderco. I cutted a few 3/8" poly rope as well as 3 or 4 plastic strapping and it became so dull I'm thinking about dropping the knife to garbage. In my opinion that blade steel with the HT it received is worthless. Any of my spydies did the same kind of work without any dulling at all, even my ladybug SB will do 100x that amount of work without failing that badly after it all. Even if it might be a one in the batch failed knife, i'll never try my luck again with a AUS8 blade.

http://products.kleintools.com/Knives%2 ... 44005.html" target="_blank

[_centurio_]

Even if it might be a one in the batch failed knife, i'll never try my luck again with a AUS8 blade

Try a Cold Steel Voyager. That stuff you cut with the Klein knife won't dull the Voyager.

BTT: I also would love to see some carbon steels and steels like AEBL

[Cujobob]

The Delica is a Japan only product atm so I doubt it's a good platform. I would like to see a model created or used similar to how the Mules are but in a folder.

Don't we already do that with the C-36 Military model to a certain degree? Because I have 3 of them with all different blade steels and I know there's at least 12 to 15 of the C-36 Military model in different blade steels. And I actually think the Military model is ideal for that purpose>> even though I would like to see them do that with my beloved Ayoob model.

I totally agree with Cliff's statement that there are certain principles in metallurgy that are "matter of fact" rather than being subjective or comparative. It goes with the old saying "you can't make a silk purse from a pig's ear" :rolleyes:

I'm sure there are factors like heat treating, cryo quenching, work hardening ect, ect,. But if the steel is not of good quality alloy you are pretty much limited to what you can do with each steel. Not to mention "custom versus commercial" manufacture.

This a great, thought provoking thread and I haven't seen a thread with as much great input as I have on this one in quite some time. I hope some day we can have the same chat with other exotic blade materials some day.>> JD :spyder: O

The PM2 is in the same boat. The PM2 and Military are a bit too outdoorsy/hard use/large for what I'm thinking of. Something like a Caly or Sage would work really well. The mule team fixed blades already fill the role for harder use.

[Bodog]

Hmm. I called A11 for a small wicked sharp folder. Can A11/10V handle prying tasks without easily breaking? Keep in mind, when I say prying, I'm talking about someone with some intelligence and restraint doing the prying. Sometimes you have to pry something and all you have is your knife, as much as it sucks to say that.

More on topic...

2. Smaller EDC fixed blade which can handle some light prying and some heavy duty slicing, moderate corrosion prevention:

Kinda of interesting really as I have this small fixed blade, about 3" blade and very thin blade stock at .070" that I have been using for the past 4+ months to cut anything that really needed to be cut. That's anything and everything around the house from opening packages to assorted other things out in the garage and even cutting tape and cardboard up against steel, haven't touched the edge on the knife in over 4 months.....

I was looking at it the other day and cleaned off the blade with some WD-40 and was checking the edge, still very sharp with a lot of bite so I checked the sharpness on phone book paper and it sliced it with no problem.....

What is the steel?

It's Zapp A11.... Like CPM 10V......

[Blerv]

Sometimes you have to pry something and all you have is your knife, as much as it sucks to say that.

"Have to" is relative.

I can see having to pry to escape a prison of cannibals during some type of post-apocalyptic Walking Dead scenario. In that situation, screw my knife...I don't want to be dinner. In most situations though you either can chose between potentially ruining a $50-200 tool or taking a second to look at other options or get another tool.

I think most folders can pry depending on how much steel is being used as a leverage point and how much force is being applied. In almost all situations though, I'll reach for a $2 flathead screwdriver.

[Ankerson]

Hmm. I called A11 for a small wicked sharp folder. Can A11/10V handle prying tasks without easily breaking? Keep in mind, when I say prying, I'm talking about someone with some intelligence and restraint doing the prying. Sometimes you have to pry something and all you have is your knife, as much as it sucks to say that.

More on topic...

2. Smaller EDC fixed blade which can handle some light prying and some heavy duty slicing, moderate corrosion prevention:

Kinda of interesting really as I have this small fixed blade, about 3" blade and very thin blade stock at .070" that I have been using for the past 4+ months to cut anything that really needed to be cut. That's anything and everything around the house from opening packages to assorted other things out in the garage and even cutting tape and cardboard up against steel, haven't touched the edge on the knife in over 4 months.....

I was looking at it the other day and cleaned off the blade with some WD-40 and was checking the edge, still very sharp with a lot of bite so I checked the sharpness on phone book paper and it sliced it with no problem.....

What is the steel?

It's Zapp A11.... Like CPM 10V......

Not recommend to pry with any knife ment for cutting..

Now those 1/4" pry bars maybe...

[Bodog]

So then having a knife with a thickness of about .15 to .19 in. in 3V is pointless? That could handle some intelligent prying without breaking.

I can intelligently pry with my current edc, the MT19. I guess that means it's not a good knife since it holds an edge well AND handle other things that may arise. I can see if someone wants a knife that cuts forever, but common sense dictates that sometimes a real person in the real world may be put into a position to use a tool for something other than it was designed for, kind of like you mentioned, using a screwdriver as a prybar.

Now I don't know about you, but when I'm out and doing my thing in the middle of nowhere, I very well may not have a 2 dollar screwdriver needed to pry and twist into a tree or pull some barbed wire away from a post or cut a nail out of a tire and insert a hasty plug or whatever other thing may come along. I will always have my knife, however. Your needs are different than mine and you shouldn't discount my needs any more than you'd want me to discount yours.

I won't carry a fragile knife as an edc, hence my stated requirements of being moderately tough with good wear resistance. Now if I wanted to carry a small paring knife or something designed to ONLY slice soft, clean material, then I'd consider something a little bit more delicate. My edc isn't for slicing pieces of steak and onions, or even breaking down miles of clean, new cardboard for that matter. Some people need something a little different. The right tool for the right job. If I needed a fillet or skinning knife, I would've said I need a steel that can be thin as **** and hold an edge for a long time. My list was just my list, feel free to state your requirements and then which blade steels you'd like to see.

I learn from the massive amount of work you put into your tests, and I follow them closely, but that doesn't mean that what tops your list will automatically be the same as what tops mine. Thanks for what you do, I mean it, it's very appreciated, but you should accept that people have their own requirements for their needs, too, and their needs are just as valid as yours. And they may be very different from yours.

[Ankerson]

So then having a knife with a thickness of about .15 to .19 in. in 3V is pointless? That could handle some intelligent prying without breaking.

I can intelligently pry with my current edc, the MT19. I guess that means it's not a good knife since it holds an edge well AND handle other things that may arise. I can see if someone wants a knife that cuts forever, but common sense dictates that sometimes a real person in the real world may be put into a position to use a tool for something other than it was designed for, kind of like you mentioned, using a screwdriver as a prybar.

Now I don't know about you, but when I'm out and doing my thing in the middle of nowhere, I very well may not have a 2 dollar screwdriver needed to pry and twist into a tree or pull some barbed wire away from a post or cut a nail out of a tire and insert a hasty plug or whatever other thing may come along. I will always have my knife, however. Your needs are different than mine and you shouldn't discount my needs any more than you'd want me to discount yours.

I won't carry a fragile knife as an edc, hence my stated requirements of being moderately tough with good wear resistance. Now if I wanted to carry a small paring knife or something designed to ONLY slice soft, clean material, then I'd consider something a little bit more delicate. My edc isn't for slicing pieces of steak and onions, or even breaking down miles of clean, new cardboard for that matter. Some people need something a little different. The right tool for the right job. If I needed a fillet or skinning knife, I would've said I need a steel that can be thin as **** and hold an edge for a long time. My list was just my list, feel free to state your requirements and then which blade steels you'd like to see.

I learn from the massive amount of work you put into your tests, and I follow them closely, but that doesn't mean that what tops your list will automatically be the same as what tops mine. Thanks for what you do, I mean it, it's very appreciated, but you should accept that people have their own requirements for their needs, too, and their needs are just as valid as yours. And they may be very different from yours.

All I said was I don't recommend prying with knives....

Now what you want to do with your knife is fine....

I do a variety of different tests, on the harder use stuff I still do some prying, but the knives are designed to take it...

Something like the GSO-4.1 in M390 that I tested, I beat that one up pretty good and stabbed into concrete tip 1st and it didn't do anything to it....

So it does depend on the knife and what it's designed to do....

[Bodog]

So then you're suggesting M390 for the edc requirements I stated? If so, thank you. I was thinking 4V/V4E/Vanadis 23 for their toughness and edge holding capabilities. Considering I like the well balanced nature PSF27, but think that toughness and edge holding capabilities could be improved uponand slightly lower corrsosion resitance would be acceptable, would you think that any of the aforementioned steels would be better suited to my stated needs more than M390?