Just steels...

[Bugout Bill]

*searches major knife online retailer for "AEB-L"*

"You searched for all products matching "AEB-L"
No matching products were found, please try again."

(I also tried 13C26 and 14C28)

Well, lets see. Kershaw uses 14C28 heavily. 13C26 is used by Buck on some of their knives as well.

I don't particularly care about AEBL. I would rather shill heavily for AUS-8 at high hardness to make a comeback. The industry push for VG-10 and 154CM didn't give it a fair shake.

[bearfacedkiller]

Double post. Oops.

[bearfacedkiller]

I was really hoping to hear about steels that I haven't heard about too much before and how they can be used. Took a turn for the worse and it doesn't seem like it it can be reversed. Holy cow. Thanks for crapping all over a thread. I wish I could close or lock it.

...and the high carbide / low carbide battle rages on.

Yup, it gets kinda old. I called it on page 1. Jim is the captain of the carbide police and it doesn't take him long to put the smack down. Too bad it always has to turn into this. :confused:

[Blerv]

Well, lets see. Kershaw uses 14C28 heavily. 13C26 is used by Buck on some of their knives as well.

I don't particularly care about AEBL. I would rather shill heavily for AUS-8 at high hardness to make a comeback. The industry push for VG-10 and 154CM didn't give it a fair shake.

Yea, I don't want to buy either of those knives :).

If AUS-6 and 440A weren't so negatively viewed by people who shop folding knives those would be a decent place to start as well. Maybe we should just have the makers rebrand them with a cool code name. Like "Wolverine_X"

[Ankerson]

Many years ago on this forum there were talks of CPM S125V. I wish to rekindle those talks. Any knife any color any country. Just bring on the 125 with a spyderco heat treat. Even with a subpar Italian heat treat this steel still performed very well. It just kept cutting and cutting and cutting. I'm sure spyderco could do something amazing with this steel. Especially if it was made in golden. I find golden and Japan have the best heat treats. Cpm110v on the mule felt kinda soft compared to the manix and native 5. Maybe I'm off on this but i listen to my stones.

The thing about S125V is that's it's EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE and it's a special order only steel.

It's a bare to roll out into sheets, the product loss is very high percentage wise.... Even higher than S110V, and that's high.....

Then it has to be surface ground to flatten it because it's rolls out so rough...

Then it's like glass to handle until after heat treating so it has to be handled like glass or it will crack... So the more standard methods of cutting it won't work....

Then they have to grind the knife blades in a steel that has extreme wear resistance and finish them....

But in the end once it's done and the HT is right and at a good hardness range in the 64-66 range it makes for an outstanding knife blade that is VERY stainless and the edge holding is right up there with the very best..

But getting it to that point is a process......

[Bugout Bill]

Well, lets see. Kershaw uses 14C28 heavily. 13C26 is used by Buck on some of their knives as well.

I don't particularly care about AEBL. I would rather shill heavily for AUS-8 at high hardness to make a comeback. The industry push for VG-10 and 154CM didn't give it a fair shake.

Yea, I don't want to buy either of those knives :).

If AUS-6 and 440A weren't so negatively viewed by people who shop folding knives those would be a decent place to start as well. Maybe we should just have the makers rebrand them with a cool code name. Like "Wolverine_X"

Benchmade was running AUS-8 at around 60HRC right before they phased out their Taiwan production, I believe Cold Steel runs it at similar hardness and usually gets high praise for it. Ontario and Randall still use 440A as a blade steel as well.

What you want to buy has nothing to do with it. You were saying that 13C26 and 14C28 aren't used. They are.

[Cujobob]

13C26 and 14C28N are out there, but the issue is that they aren't hardened to the point they'd reach their full potential. My custom 14C28N fixed blade is around 61 RC. I am thrilled with it's edge retention and ease of sharpening. It's a nice balance. I've heard less than stellar things about Kershaw's heat treat of it.

Plenty of knives out there have soft steels that are easy to sharpen, it's getting the performance out of them that we want.

And those commenting on the OT posts in this thread are what keep it off track.

[Bodog]

If AUS-6 and 440A weren't so negatively viewed by people who shop folding knives those would be a decent place to start as well. Maybe we should just have the makers rebrand them with a cool code name. Like "Wolverine_X"

Benchmade was running AUS-8 at around 60HRC right before they phased out their Taiwan production, I believe Cold Steel runs it at similar hardness and usually gets high praise for it. Ontario and Randall still use 440A as a blade steel as well.

What you want to buy has nothing to do with it. You were saying that 13C26 and 14C28 aren't used. They are.

Did anyone say they wanted to see AUS6, 440A, 13c26, or 14c28 in a new knife? Why are you arguing about this stuff? Someone said they couldn't find AEBL and they couldn't find fairly equivalent steels to AEBL either. Come on, man. Do you need to argue that? Maybe you could just be decent and forward him a link to some you know about instead of arguing with him. He'd appreciate it, I'm sure. If you have a steel that you'd like to see in a new knife, bring it up and talk about it. If you have tested a steel that someone else would like to see in a knife, share your thoughts. Freaking seriously man. Is it that tough to just chill out and discuss pro's and con's of knife steels?

I have better things to do than watch people bicker about stupid crap. I'd love to come here and learn. Right now people bickering is just wasting everyone else's time, including mine.

If you guys just want to bicker, pass out your emails and have at it there. Ugh.

[xceptnl]

Now on to steels:

A Caly 3 in full hard AUS-8A would be a very interesting blade.

Benchmade was running AUS-8 at around 60HRC right before they phased out their Taiwan production, I believe Cold Steel runs it at similar hardness and usually gets high praise for it.

Bill, do you have a target goal for your proposed combination? I have experienced the AUS-8 of CS and found it to be lacking in almost every aspect when compared to VG-10. I would like to understand your reasoning further. Also, welcome to the forum.

[Cujobob]

Many years ago on this forum there were talks of CPM S125V. I wish to rekindle those talks. Any knife any color any country. Just bring on the 125 with a spyderco heat treat. Even with a subpar Italian heat treat this steel still performed very well. It just kept cutting and cutting and cutting. I'm sure spyderco could do something amazing with this steel. Especially if it was made in golden. I find golden and Japan have the best heat treats. Cpm110v on the mule felt kinda soft compared to the manix and native 5. Maybe I'm off on this but i listen to my stones.

I don't believe the Mule was hardened as high as the Manix' in S110V if memory serves, but it's edge retention has been phenomenal from all who've tested it in a controlled environment. I think, when evaluating the quality of a steel as we are here, it's dangerous to suggest it's edge retention isn't very good because of the way it feels. This was just the case in another thread where, I believe it was Ankerson, who re-sharpened the S110V mule for someone and got much greater performance than the owner did who struggled with it.

S125V isn't really worth the effort over S110V IMHO. The manufacturing costs associated go up even higher and my understanding is that the associated performance of the steel isn't so far superior that it's worth all the effort. I considered picking up a Ferrum Forge knife in S125V recently but passed for various reasons...it is something I'd like to test vs. S110V in a similar format.

[Bugout Bill]

Now on to steels:

A Caly 3 in full hard AUS-8A would be a very interesting blade.

Benchmade was running AUS-8 at around 60HRC right before they phased out their Taiwan production, I believe Cold Steel runs it at similar hardness and usually gets high praise for it.

Bill, do you have a target goal for your proposed combination? I have experienced the AUS-8 of CS and found it to be lacking in almost every aspect when compared to VG-10. I would like to understand your reasoning further. Also, welcome to the forum.

Thank you.

A Caly 3 in AUS-8 run at 62HRC would likely yield a different impression of what AUS-8 is capable of. I have had a pair of CS fixed blades in AUS-8 and generally been unimpressed. There have been a few reviews of the American Lawman that have said good things about AUS-8, but geometry may have been more of a factor in that.

[Cujobob]

Was reading up on AUS 8 and many have reported that the steel varies greatly based on the quality of heat treat. SOG was mentioned having a good AUS 8.

thombrogan on BF said it best: "AUS-8 can be awesome when it's given a heat treatment with high hardness and low levels of retained austenite, so-so with a medium-high hardness and low levels of retained austenite, and gross at any hardness with high levels of retained austenite. The problem is that the heat-treatment can vary from knife to knife within the same brand."


Certain steels are much more finicky at the production level than others.

[Bugout Bill]

Was reading up on AUS 8 and many have reported that the steel varies greatly based on the quality of heat treat. SOG was mentioned having a good AUS 8.

thombrogan on BF said it best: "AUS-8 can be awesome when it's given a heat treatment with high hardness and low levels of retained austenite, so-so with a medium-high hardness and low levels of retained austenite, and gross at any hardness with high levels of retained austenite. The problem is that the heat-treatment can vary from knife to knife within the same brand."


Certain steels are much more finicky at the production level than others.

Spyderco is widely praised for good heat treat, I'm sure that they could do a good job on AUS-8.

[me2]

Ok, lets see:

1. I'd up the blade length to 7" or so but that's just me. What do you mean by maintenance? Stainless: 420HC, 440A, H1, AUS8, and similar. Non-stainless: 1055, 5160, 1080, 4340, 52100, SR101, S7, A8, 15N20, and similar.

2. So a 3-4 inch fixed blade with more emphasis on slicing and less on rough use and some corrosion resistance. 440C, D2, M2, M4, 14C28N, 13C26, AEB-L, S30V, 3V, 154CM or cpm version. A broad selection now that I look at it.

3. Got it. M2, M4, D2, A2, 1095, 52100, AEB-L, 13C26, 14C28N, 3V, 154CM or cpm version.

4. Again, got it. H1, 1080, 1055, 420J2, 420HC, 440A, AUS 8, 12C27 and 12C27M, 15N20.

5. Now the fun. White 2, White 1, Blue, Super Blue, O1, 1095, W1, W2, 52100, AEB-L, 13C26, 15N20, A2, M2, M4,

[xceptnl]

Thank you.

A Caly 3 in AUS-8 run at 62HRC would likely yield a different impression of what AUS-8 is capable of. I have had a pair of CS fixed blades in AUS-8 and generally been unimpressed. There have been a few reviews of the American Lawman that have said good things about AUS-8, but geometry may have been more of a factor in that.

So you feel a carefully controlled HT that is more aggressive than what is currently used will be enough to boost AUS-8 to a level that is better than VG-10 (I am aware many consider this a trash steel but I will not open that can of worms). Is this edge retention based in your opinion? Do you feel a higher hardness VG-10 would yield a similar boost in your performance categorization?

[Bodog]

Thank you.

A Caly 3 in AUS-8 run at 62HRC would likely yield a different impression of what AUS-8 is capable of. I have had a pair of CS fixed blades in AUS-8 and generally been unimpressed. There have been a few reviews of the American Lawman that have said good things about AUS-8, but geometry may have been more of a factor in that.

So you feel a carefully controlled HT that is more aggressive than what is currently used will be enough to boost AUS-8 to a level that is better than VG-10 (I am aware many consider this a trash steel but I will not open that can of worms). Is this edge retention based in your opinion? Do you feel a higher hardness VG-10 would yield a similar boost in your performance categorization?

I can't and won't believe that AUS8 at any hardness would match even S30V in any category at even a somewhat sub-optimal heat treat. If someone said it could then there'd have to be something more than simple words to prove it. When you factor in a steel like elmax at about 61 or 62 hrc, I have a hard time seeing why AUS8 would be an option at all in any application except for a budget knife where for whatever reason 8cr or 9cr wouldn't work just as well for less. I can't really think of any.

[sal]

Thanx Bodog, We try to curb as we can.

Opinions are good. Disagreement is also ok. Rudeness is not acceptable here. Can it!

I'd like to welcome the newer posters. I'd also like to also remind all that we don't bash people here. There are plenty of other forums where you can do that. Respect is foremost on this forum. My house, my rules.

We're in the process of getting some AEB-L for a Mule Team run. For some reason it's difficult to get in production quantities. Long lead time, but we've got some coming. We've also got a few other steels ordered or in process to play with.

We've tried to get 125V twice, but Crucible wasn't able to roll it and it cracked in surface grinding. We made a few Military's from 125V. Great stuff, hard to grind. Maybe in the future.

As we've shown, we're not opposed to trying different steels of all types. Mules are good testers. production runs also work. Usually sprints. Many of the steels we've used began as a dscussion here, suggested by one of you.

sal

[sal]

We've made thousands of knives with AUS-8. I don't think it will get as hard as some of you say and not be brittle.

We've tried a number of times to work with Sandvik, but they never get back to us.

sal

[Bugout Bill]

Thank you.

A Caly 3 in AUS-8 run at 62HRC would likely yield a different impression of what AUS-8 is capable of. I have had a pair of CS fixed blades in AUS-8 and generally been unimpressed. There have been a few reviews of the American Lawman that have said good things about AUS-8, but geometry may have been more of a factor in that.

So you feel a carefully controlled HT that is more aggressive than what is currently used will be enough to boost AUS-8 to a level that is better than VG-10 (I am aware many consider this a trash steel but I will not open that can of worms). Is this edge retention based in your opinion? Do you feel a higher hardness VG-10 would yield a similar boost in your performance categorization?

AUS-8 with a high hardness heat treat (Something I am positive Spyderco would be capable of) will have higher edge stability than VG-10. Edge retention is a very multifaceted thing, too. If we are talking abrasive wear resistance, VG10 will be better, but less tough. High hardness VG10 would improve wear resistance if I understand correctly.

In terms of edge retention testing, what little I have done has impressed me. I have tested comparable 8CR against soft S35VN, the 8cr suffered less rolling on cardboard.

[Ankerson]

Yup, it gets kinda old. I called it on page 1. Jim is the captain of the carbide police and it doesn't take him long to put the smack down. Too bad it always has to turn into this. :confused:

Actually I don't usually say all that much until the facts start leaving the thread and the fantasies start rolling... I have seen a lot of that lately I must say.... But I won't get into details for the good of the forum....

So I try and bring things back to reality..... But I do tend to let a lot of it slide because it's just not worth the effort in some cases.... Or the aggravation and the headaches that I get....