Just steels...

[Bodog]

Since Sal said in another thread to discuss some steels, let's get a separate thread going. Since different steels can be great for one application but terrible for another, I'm thinking that breaking down the steels for different uses is the way to keep it somewhat organized. I'd personally like to see five categories, please add on if you want, these are just what came to my mind.

1. Big tough fixed blade, maybe 5 inches long, for field work where maintenance may be a concern but not overwhelming:
Coated 4V/V4E or Z wear/PD1 (I'd love to see a temperance sprint in one of these steels even though it's not a walking dead, zombie stabbing type of knife)

2. Smaller EDC fixed blade which can handle some light prying and some heavy duty slicing, moderate corrosion prevention:
I'm liking psf27 quite a bit. Also 4V/V4E or vanadis 23

3. Longer blade with no chopping or prying or twisting of any kind, primarily with slicing soft materials in mind, high maintenance needs are acceptable:
Hap40, YXR7

4. Rough use folder, no tactical stuff in mind but that can probably handle it if necessary.
Coated 3V, m390 (para sprint also?)

5. Wicked sharp light duty 3.5 in. +/- folder.
Maxamet, K390, A11 (slysz bowie or something similar to the carpenter foundry knife would be freaking awesome, those are both seriously beautiful knives)

[Bill1170]

So is the idea to offer opinions on what steel we want to see for a certain type of blade application?

If so, I have been very pleased with VG-10 on light, thin slicers in light duty applications and M-390 for all around work with a more robust 3.5" bladed folder.

[KevinOubre]

I would love to see a chopper in S7 at about 60rc. I am enjoying my K2 so it would be interesting to see something else with 10V, say slicer in the same realm as Phil Wilson, but a folder. A knife in Niolox/SB1 would be great as well.

[3rdGenRigger]

I want something in Shirogami White-1...not especially picky about what. And some Golden or Taichung offerings in K390 would be great as well.

[WorkingEdge]

I don't recall any coated spyderco knives. Just as well for me as I prefer my blades naked : )

[3rdGenRigger]

I don't recall any coated spyderco knives. Just as well for me as I prefer my blades naked : )

You mean other than the current DLC coated models like the black bladed Millie, PM2, Manix2, etc.? I also prefer my blades uncoated.

[WorkingEdge]

I don't recall any coated spyderco knives. Just as well for me as I prefer my blades naked : )

You mean other than the current DLC coated models like the black bladed Millie, PM2, Manix2, etc.? I also prefer my blades uncoated.

I guess best to just ignore me as I forgot all about those!

[bornagainprimative]

I'd be interested in super tool steels for the spyderco tomahawk

[Bodog]

I don't recall any coated spyderco knives. Just as well for me as I prefer my blades naked : )

You mean other than the current DLC coated models like the black bladed Millie, PM2, Manix2, etc.? I also prefer my blades uncoated.

I prefer uncoated blades too, but I know that certain steels would have to be left out of consideration because they'd be quick to rust in certain environments. Coating them allows those steels to be carried in any environment without worry, so in certain applications, it makes since. And for some reason, I think a temperance with a black blade and flat earth g10 handles would look killer, an exception to my own tastes.

[Bodog]

I'd be interested in super tool steels for the spyderco tomahawk

Bornagain, which super tool steels are you thinking?

[The Mastiff]

Leaving out applications I'd love to see some HAP40, YXR7, SRS 15 ( stainless high speed), PM 60, BE2519 / 1.2519 / 110WCrV5 tool steel which is sort of like an O7 or Super Blue European grade. Niolux is another European fairly low all0oy steel that does pretty well. I have one production knife in this steel but would love to see it heat treated more for performance. As it is it's nice, fairly tough at thin edges, and cuts good.

The Hitachi White steels though great at what they do are definitely going to need some special packing when coming over seas. It's pretty rusty stuff even for me.

Not steel exactly but I'd love to have Spyderco bring in a batch of the Ti framed Delicas sold in Japan. I've wanted to import one for years but haven't. I'd prefer Endura naturally but don't think it's ever been made. The Ti delica is ATS 34 rather than VG10. Not a problem for me. It's the first "super steel" and still does great.

[paladin]

Not steel exactly but I'd love to have Spyderco bring in a batch of the Ti framed Delicas sold in Japan. I've wanted to import one for years but haven't. I'd prefer Endura naturally but don't think it's ever been made. The Ti delica is ATS 34 rather than VG10. Not a problem for me. It's the first "super steel" and still does great.

Great idea, I second the motion...Joe, is the Japan ATS-34 version in Damascus like the VG-10 offering also?

[Steel_Drake]

5. Wicked sharp light duty 3.5 in. +/- folder.
Maxamet, K390, A11 (slysz bowie or something similar to the carpenter foundry knife would be freaking awesome, those are both seriously beautiful knives)

For this kind of application I'd love to see Spyderco try something like AEB-L or a similarly fine grained, small carbide (size) steel, run at a fairly high hardness. These are the kinds of steels designed for taking very fine, highly polished edges (like Aogami Super) and would excel in this kind of application. Beyond that, I think Spyderco is the only folding knife manufacturer that would actually be willing to try and make more production knives in these kinds of steels and whom I would trust to get the heat treat right.

[Cujobob]

5. Wicked sharp light duty 3.5 in. +/- folder.
Maxamet, K390, A11 (slysz bowie or something similar to the carpenter foundry knife would be freaking awesome, those are both seriously beautiful knives)

For this kind of application I'd love to see Spyderco try something like AEB-L or a similarly fine grained, small carbide (size) steel, run at a fairly high hardness. These are the kinds of steels designed for taking very fine, highly polished edges (like Aogami Super) and would excel in this kind of application. Beyond that, I think Spyderco is the only folding knife manufacturer that would actually be willing to try and make more production knives in these kinds of steels and whom I would trust to get the heat treat right.

This. More low carbide steels, please. Once people actually get to carry properly heat treated low carbide steels, the perception of them being inferior will change. They need to be run to fairly high hardness levels though.

[Ankerson]

5. Wicked sharp light duty 3.5 in. +/- folder.
Maxamet, K390, A11 (slysz bowie or something similar to the carpenter foundry knife would be freaking awesome, those are both seriously beautiful knives)

For this kind of application I'd love to see Spyderco try something like AEB-L or a similarly fine grained, small carbide (size) steel, run at a fairly high hardness. These are the kinds of steels designed for taking very fine, highly polished edges (like Aogami Super) and would excel in this kind of application. Beyond that, I think Spyderco is the only folding knife manufacturer that would actually be willing to try and make more production knives in these kinds of steels and whom I would trust to get the heat treat right.

This. More low carbide steels, please. Once people actually get to carry properly heat treated low carbide steels, the perception of them being inferior will change. They need to be run to fairly high hardness levels though.

I guess the wear resistant carbides that those low alloy steels don't have will somehow just magically appear out of the sky huh......

[Blerv]

I guess the wear resistant carbides that those low alloy steels don't have will somehow just magically appear out of the sky huh......

Oh Jim, 1095 in the mid 60's will blow away CPM-110v at 63. Admit it :)

[Cliff Stamp]

1095 in the mid 60's will blow away CPM-110v at 63

It depends on what properties, the 1095 it will have superior :

-strength
-grindability
-apex stability

and the practical results indicated by the same. It will be interior in terms of low stress abrasion resistance, however the only thing that does in knives is enhance low sharpness edge retention in slicing abrasive media and the influence of grit and apex angle are much stronger than steel in that respect. Now of course it is also stainless, but you can get stain resistant steels which have similar micro-structure at ~65 HRC.

As an example :



Note the 10:1 difference in edge retention between the Sigma Power 120 and Naniwa Aotoshi. This is the same knife, same geometry, the only thing different is the apex / micro-bevel grit finish. If the apex angle was also adjusted at the same time then the edge retention range will explode further as it just combines that graph with this one :



Note even further, even where carbide volume is of benefit, cutting abrasive media, it is only a benefit if you ignore grindability issues, if you don't then the very high carbide steels will do poorly if you look at edge retention as a function of grindability :



Hence why such steels are well respected by lots of people and used in fairly decent knives.

[bearfacedkiller]

...and the high carbide / low carbide battle rages on.

[Ankerson]

I guess the wear resistant carbides that those low alloy steels don't have will somehow just magically appear out of the sky huh......

Oh Jim, 1095 in the mid 60's will blow away CPM-110v at 63. Admit it :)

Yeah. ROFL.... :D

Only way that would ever happen is if the S110V started out dull before the testing started..... That or they sharpened the 1095 blade 3 or 4 times during the testing...

[Ankerson]

1095 in the mid 60's will blow away CPM-110v at 63

It depends on what properties, the 1095 it will have superior :

-strength
-grindability
-apex stability

Not at high hardness it doesn't.... Start getting 1095 much over 62 and it's not all that stable.... And that's the reason why most makes won't take it above the 62 range....

A2 and 52100 are better for those types of blades... Either one at high hardness makes for a great kitchen knife... 64-65 range......