Soap and water cleaning

[hunterseeker5]

but this does just support the suspicion that it wasn't completely dry after you washed it.

I mean...... obviously. This gets into the whole: I dried it as best I could, better than would have been possible say out and about hiking or something, given that I didn't disassemble it thing. The stop pin, you'll note, goes into the the liners and, from the looks of it to me, the water was not fully removed from this hard to reach area. But again, methinks a shop compressor does a better job than I could have with the corner of my shirt, paper towels, and/or a Q-tip.....

This is an old pic of the pin on my 20CP. This is just from sweat/moisture from my pocket.

I have one of those as well, actually I have several Para2s from roughly this era. I'm usually so paranoid about rust though that everything is so well protected I've never given it the chance. ****. :/

I still don't understand how a minute amount of water in crevices could cause that much rusting on the bulk of the stop pin. You have adamantly stated that you dried it to the best of your ability so I will believe you so this does indeed seem very strange.

Now you see why this really surprised me as well, enough that I thought it merited a forum post.

I would think it would not be the expected behavior of the stop pins to in general rust far more easily than the knife. It would only take a call to customer service to find out.

Have an email in to CS at the moment, waiting to hear back. Spyderco typically does right by their customers, so I'm interested to hear their response. I'm glad to hear you agree with me on this one though. :D

On topic: I would be interested to find out when the OP's knife was made and the date that the knife was made for anyone who experienced a similar issue.

I'm not Deacon, so I can't tell you what it means, but the box is marked BK then below it TA02.

My understanding is suction is more effective than blowing. Which I would have mentioned had I been there. But you wouldn't have listened!

I'm fascinated as to why you think the direction, rather than velocity, is the primary and significant factor in how well water is removed.

Your assumption that one part of the knife should be equally rust resistant asanother is, of course, both wrong and odd. Most customers care more about the blade corroding than anything else and that's where the expensive steel goes.

Perhaps it is. That said, if the other mechanical/functional parts of the knife corrode and either fail or cause the blade (desirable part) to corrode (both of which could happen) it would seem to render a great deal of the expense of the stainless blade steel moot. At least that is my take on it.

GS is getting us back on track. If you do ever take the knife apart there will be date on the tang. Post it on here and it may be of help to others in the future.

I'm hoping the box code will suffice. (see above)

Just my two cents but I have been carrying slipjoints for years and have been cleaning them with soap and warm water for just as many years with no issue.

Mmmm, hence my surprise in this case; I didn't expect what I thought would be a cleaning (albeit not strictly speaking a normal cleaning for me) would turn into a destructive test and cause a forum stir to boot. :P Oh well......

[Evil D]

Wow, this got blown so far out of proportion lol. Bottom line, even a very small amount if moisture can cause rust, so be thorough about drying them out, and it's probably a good idea to invest in some kind of rust preventative like Tuff-Glide if you wash them often.

/thread

[Screwdriver]

I do soap and water cleaning and a thorough rinse with very hot water. Shake as much water out and hit with compressed air. I then go outside and spray WD-40 liberally into every crevice with the knife open and closed. Never had a rust issue and even disassembled an Endure Wave I have had for many years that had been rafting and through multiple cleanings and no issue with rust anywhere.

[DougC-3]

New crackpot theory: maybe your compressor blew some sort of contaminant onto the knife... that would support the people in the pro-vacuuming camp... (those who favor sucking over blowing)

Also, maybe a less stainless steel traditionally used for pins was used because of extra toughness or whatever and because rusting is not usually a problem for pins. Just guessing.

[Fancier]

New crackpot theory: maybe your compressor blew some sort of contaminant onto the knife... that would support the people in the pro-vacuuming camp... (those who favor sucking over blowing)

Ha! Now we get to discuss the design of the air compressor! :)

[Evil D]

I do soap and water cleaning and a thorough rinse with very hot water. Shake as much water out and hit with compressed air. I then go outside and spray WD-40 liberally into every crevice with the knife open and closed. Never had a rust issue and even disassembled an Endure Wave I have had for many years that had been rafting and through multiple cleanings and no issue with rust anywhere.

This is good advice, but I would also add that it's a good idea to add some lube after using WD40. People forget (or don't know) that the WD in the name stands for "water displacement" and so for that it's great at getting water out of those tight crevices, but it also leaves a tacky reside behind that might gum up your pivot if you don't lube afterwards.

I use WD40 for installing bicycle grips, and once that stuff dries under the grip, it's basically glued in place until you pry them off with a screwdriver or spray more WD40 underneath them.

[hunterseeker5]

Wanted to keep this thread updated. I got a very nice response yesterday from Spyderco saying that the stop pins ARE supposed to be rust resistant. My "interpretation" of that then is that this was not the expected behavior of the stop pin, to rust at a sneeze. Charlynn also suggested I send my knife in for repair. I replied that it might be to everyone's benefit if they would simply provide, or allow me to purchase, a replacement blade stop instead, saving both parties time/effort. No response to that request yet. I guess we'll see how it goes.

On the plus side, it looks like I'm not crazy; Spyderco didn't intentionally randomly put a highly rust prone stop pin on an otherwise stainless knife. Yay Spyderco. :D

[RadioactiveSpyder]

Glad to hear Spyderco is resolving the situation for you. My guess is that they will insist you send it in for them to replace the stop pin. They would not be too keen on you doing it yourself. They'll set you up right either way! Cheers, Radioactive :)

[Screwdriver]

I do soap and water cleaning and a thorough rinse with very hot water. Shake as much water out and hit with compressed air. I then go outside and spray WD-40 liberally into every crevice with the knife open and closed. Never had a rust issue and even disassembled an Endure Wave I have had for many years that had been rafting and through multiple cleanings and no issue with rust anywhere.

This is good advice, but I would also add that it's a good idea to add some lube after using WD40. People forget (or don't know) that the WD in the name stands for "water displacement" and so for that it's great at getting water out of those tight crevices, but it also leaves a tacky reside behind that might gum up your pivot if you don't lube afterwards.

I use WD40 for installing bicycle grips, and once that stuff dries under the grip, it's basically glued in place until you pry them off with a screwdriver or spray more WD40 underneath them.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that I lube with mineral oil afterwards.

As for installing grips on my mountain bike, I use hair spray.... :D

[hunterseeker5]

Glad to hear Spyderco is resolving the situation for you. My guess is that they will insist you send it in for them to replace the stop pin. They would not be too keen on you doing it yourself. They'll set you up right either way! Cheers, Radioactive :)

We don't always have to understand company policies, but we do have to abide by them. Either way Spyderco hasn't really done me wrong yet so I'm not complaining too much. :P

At the same time, in the back of my head, I do hear this little voice saying "well I service my own weapons, as ELUs are expected to, are pocket knives that much more complicated?" :P

I was pleased to note though that the wording in the email said that they do not cover damage due to disassembly, not that disassembly unconditionally voids the warranty. The former, in my opinion, is pretty much the way things should be. :D

[Cujobob]

There are generally different types of steel used for the liners and for the stop pin if I remember correctly. The liners add some strength to the knife but don't require high hardness but a stop pin does require high hardness otherwise it will wear too easily from the blade.

[razorsharp]

those who favor sucking over blowing)

I hear ya man

[cckw]

This is not addressing anything anyone said, just telling how I clean.. I have a spray bottle of soap or windex, whichever I grab first. I spray into the pivot and work the knife. then I spray all over the outside and use a toothbrush on the surface and all inside parts the brush will reach. Then I work the pivot some more, then work the pivot under warm water and rinse the whole knife. I then smack it against my hand in different ways to knock out as much water as possible, then let it sit partially open for finally drying then relube the pivot. I lube with Slip 2000, but there are may good lubes. Although I don't like Breakfree CLP on a knife due to the teflon content. Health histories in my household lead us to stay away from many things like that. I have taken knives apart to get them better, but that is rare.

[Evil D]

Ya know, Windex may be a good idea, or even rinsing the pivot out with rubbing alcohol. That way it would evaporate and you wouldn't have to worry about drying it as well. The only question is if alcohol is any worse as far as corrosion goes, but I think for anything stainless it should be fine.

[DougC-3]

I haven't checked the Windex formula lately, but I sure wouldn't use any with ammonia on my pivot.

[NoFair]

Ya know, Windex may be a good idea, or even rinsing the pivot out with rubbing alcohol. That way it would evaporate and you wouldn't have to worry about drying it as well. The only question is if alcohol is any worse as far as corrosion goes, but I think for anything stainless it should be fine.

Alcohol is fine. It does degrease it a bit so relubing might be needed more often. I use 70% ethanol on Spydies used in autopsies and no worries (M4 does fine as well)

[Evil D]

I haven't checked the Windex formula lately, but I sure wouldn't use any with ammonia on my pivot.

Good point, I was thinking more along the lines of an alcohol based cleaner that would evaporate and not leave a residue. I'm picturing using one of those water pick flossing things filled with alcohol.. That would spray out any crud from most any area and would dry clean. Then lube and you're good to go.

[Studey]

Ya know, Windex may be a good idea, or even rinsing the pivot out with rubbing alcohol. That way it would evaporate and you wouldn't have to worry about drying it as well. The only question is if alcohol is any worse as far as corrosion goes, but I think for anything stainless it should be fine.

Alcohol is fine. It does degrease it a bit so relubing might be needed more often. I use 70% ethanol on Spydies used in autopsies and no worries (M4 does fine as well)

They use 70% in autopsies or you use your Spydies in autopsies? :eek:

[NoFair]

I use a Military (animal autopsies). Cleans out with no problems. An autoclave is normally used for gear needing to be sterile, but I don't do that with my knives (alcohol and/or ultrasonic cleaning only).

[hunterseeker5]

As someone who spends a lot of time browsing old threads, it always frustrates me when I find a situation that interests me (or parallels one of mine) but as soon as resolution is approached the thread dies and isn't updated as to the outcome. To that end, here is what has happened in the past month and a half:

I spoke with Charlynn as indicated above. She was very nice, helpful, and generous with her time. She indicated that this may not have been the expected performance of the part, but that they could not ship out replacement stop pins, so I should return the knife. I also requested spyderco please NOT sharpen the knife, or touch the edge at all, because the knife was in the middle of apex geometry experiments and I didn't want the geometry reset. (the knife was also probably as sharp or sharper than it comes from the factory anyway)

I returned the knife, and it was assessed. I may muddle the order of things here, but the punchline was Charlynn said she would replace the stop pin and that there would be some nominal fee for service. (If memory serves, it was 5$ to cover return shipping)

I called and paid, but shortly thereafter received another email from Charlynn saying that she discovered the knife had another issue (a lockup issue; spine whacks caused the lock to fail) and so the fee would be waived but she also couldn't handle the fix herself so the knife would be sent somewhere for the more comprehensive fix, and that this would unfortunately take a little longer.

Fast forward a couple weeks, the knife has come back. The lockup problem, which I didn't even know existed, was presumably fixed (I don't typically do spine whacks) and there is a glossy new Spyderco catalogue in the box as well as a personal letter signed by Melissa indicating the knife had been reconditioned and thanking me for using Spyderco products. The knife also has the fancy-shmancy new black screws installed. The kicker? The stop pin is pitted, I'd swear it is the same one with just the surface rust wiped off and maybe a little buffing.

Another email to Charlynn and she says she doesn't know, because she didn't perform the work, so she'll have to review the work order and get back to me. That was November 25th she sent that email. I've sent a few follow-ups, and haven't gotten a response.

IME it is unlike Spyderco to ignore people's emails, so I'm more than a little puzzled as to what is going on. :confused: I'd like to think that I didn't embark on this whole adventure just to discover that the stop pin can't be replaced.

*edit*
I should also mention that I pulled the knife out of the box it was returned in (and has been sitting on my desk in) since I got it back from W&R. What originally appeared to just be a smidge of pitting is now overtly orange rust on the stop pin. I haven't touched the knife, and the ambient humidity in here has been hovering somewhere between 10 and 30% (its winter and the heating system makes it insanely dry in here). So again, to everyone claiming I "abusively" washed my knife previously, I'm pretty sure sitting in Spyderco packaging inside a very dry house doesn't constitute abusive or neglectful treatment (if it does, god help it having to exist in some hellish youtube worthy test like a pocket). Either way, the stop pin now has a thin layer of Tuff Glide squirted on it, which will hopefully keep it safe for the time being.