Lock strength and safety

[jackh]

My thoughts and opinion only.

Lots of discussion about lock strength and such. Cold Steel has videos of how their tri-lock is stronger than others. Maybe it is. It is a great lock. I have 3 Cold steel small folders and LOVE them all for different needs. HOWEVER: To me the tests (comparisons) of their knives and other folder locks is fun but not really a deal breaker or maker of which folder to buy. The level of strength of any "looser" in their videos is far stronger than anything I think I'll ever need. If I'm doing a task requiring tons of lock strength to protect myself from finger loss I'm going to use a fixed blade.

Over the years I've owned lots of knives including Spyderco. As long as you buy a knife and use it as it is designed for you're pretty safe. When I get a Spyderco I have no doubt about lock strength. I've never had a failure even when I get crazy and decide to stab a tree with my gayle bradley or manix to test it.

I had slip joint traditional folder fold on me and cut my index finger to the bone. That was because I used it like a fixed blade. The half stop traditional knives are great for providing a good level of safety. I like that.

So, learn about different knives and how to use them and be safe. Who knows, you may need to teach your child how to be safe. How can you do that with band-aids all over your fingers? :)

[Daveho]

Indeed-
It really does come down to the correct tool for the job-

[jpm2]

All well made locks are equal strength to me, that is, I've never had a well made one of any type fail.
I have had poorly made liner and back locks fail.

[Bloke]

I feel like the odd man out and I've missed and still missing something.

I've played with knives as much as the next fellow I'd reckon and in that time I've had ONE slip joint close on my fingers when I was a little tacker ... once bitten twice shy and it's never happened since.

I never cease to marvel at reports of locks failing and can't help but wonder as to how strong some knife users must be and what they were actually cutting that pushed the lock to fail ... bizarre. :confused:

[Calicoast]

I've played with knives as much as the next fellow I'd reckon and in that time I've had ONE slip joint close on my fingers when I was a little tacker ... once bitten twice shy and it's never happened since.

Been pocketing the Urban K390 last couple days.
Will keep this thread in mind.

Once bitten twice shy brings it back to the 80's for me.
https://youtu.be/Bz61YQWZuYU

[vivi]

I feel like the odd man out and I've missed and still missing something.

I've played with knives as much as the next fellow I'd reckon and in that time I've had ONE slip joint close on my fingers when I was a little tacker ... once bitten twice shy and it's never happened since.

I never cease to marvel at reports of locks failing and can't help but wonder as to how strong some knife users must be and what they were actually cutting that pushed the lock to fail ... bizarre. :confused:

I did have one of those Buck/Strider collabs a while back that failed very easily. It was a liner lock, and I could pop it open and give the spine a light tap on a table and make it consistently fail. Sent it in and it came back the same. I was swinging at the wrist too, not those full arm swings youtube testers do.

[Daveho]

I feel like the odd man out and I've missed and still missing something.

I've played with knives as much as the next fellow I'd reckon and in that time I've had ONE slip joint close on my fingers when I was a little tacker ... once bitten twice shy and it's never happened since.

I never cease to marvel at reports of locks failing and can't help but wonder as to how strong some knife users must be and what they were actually cutting that pushed the lock to fail ... bizarre. :confused:

I did have one of those Buck/Strider collabs a while back that failed very easily. It was a liner lock, and I could pop it open and give the spine a light tap on a table and make it consistently fail. Sent it in and it came back the same. I was swinging at the wrist too, not those full arm swings youtube testers do.

Whoah,That’s disgusting!
Can’t say I’ve had any lock issues with spyderco- have had a few CRKT that where quite unrefined but i wouldn’t say unsafe.

[Bloke]

Once bitten twice shy brings it back to the 80's for me.
https://youtu.be/Bz61YQWZuYU

Ah, hahaha! :)

I had hair a lot like that then and I was big on Staggers flared jeans. :cool:

[Calicoast]

^^^
Need to see a picture of that. :)

[Bloke]

I did have one of those Buck/Strider collabs a while back that failed very easily. It was a liner lock, and I could pop it open and give the spine a light tap on a table and make it consistently fail. Sent it in and it came back the same. I was swinging at the wrist too, not those full arm swings youtube testers do.

I don't doubt you for a minute Vivi. :)

Though I do believe there is a major difference between a well designed lock and a would be or defective lock and in hindsight something I should have clarified in my initial post.

[Bloke]

^^^
Need to see a picture of that. :)

Ah, hahaha! No you don't! :p

[Bodog]

It's just like anything else. You don't know you need something until you do. Or better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

If locks CAN be engineered into a knife then you should consider having a knife with a well engineered lock. I wouldn't carry around a single shot pistol, not now that magazine fed pistols are available. But i guess if you want to carry around a derringer while I carry around a 9mm subcompact glock that holds 13 rounds then all I can say is a gun carried is better than a gun not carried. Same with knives. Find what works for you and what you feel comfortable with.

[bearfacedkiller]

I carried slip joints for all of my childhood and well into my twenties and still often carry a SAK. It may seem crazy but I can still count to ten. I am not saying a locking folder is uneccesary and I prefer to have a lock but for me it just a safety feature. I still treat any folder like it could close on me.

In the end lock reliability is far more important to me than strength. We all use knives differently and we all carry them for different reasons. This is just how I feel for me and my uses.

[knivesandbooks]

I just really don't want blade play with a lock. I'll take a weaker lock or a stronger lock. Just please no blade play. I'll accept a tad on a used Backlock becuase that's natural but other locks shouldn't have blade play or lock rock. It isn't so much the strength as it is the feeling and sound of the lockup, the psychological sense of two things fitting into place.

[Doc Dan]

A liner lock failure and a slip joint accidentally closing are not even remotely the same, unless the spring breaks on the slip joint. When a liner lock fails, and they do so with regularity when actually using them, there is nothing, zilch, nada, to keep that now free swinging blade from chopping your fingers.

I have had, and have seen, many quality liner lock and frame locks fail when used hard, but not abused. Working heating and air conditioning as a kid, working for a landscaping company, and most importantly, working on our small cattle ranch, I have seen those lock fail. The only back locks I have ever seen fail were cheap Pakistani or Chinese made. Even Gerber can make a fail proof back lock. We discouraged people working with and for us from using liner locks and frame locks because they are simply not reliable. I am sorry if this hurts anyone's feelings, but it is true, and I am not the only person saying this. Even Sal has stated that the liner lock is not as strong as a back lock. My wife will not even carry or use one. She does not use knives hard, but has had liner locks close on her, and worse, open on her and she was nearly cut badly.

I am okay if someone likes liner locks, but let us not fool ourselves and say or think that a liner lock, no matter the maker, is as strong as a good back lock or a CBBL.

As far as lock strength not being important, as far as I am concerned, it is paramount in importance. When I use a knife hard, I do not want to worry that if I make a mistake and the lock fails that I will lose a finger or two. This has happened to many, many people and I do not plan to be one of them. Some may make the silly statement "Well, just use a fixed blade". However, fixed blades are not as convenient to carry and you can not always anticipate when you are going to need a knife. Ask Surfinggringo what he thinks about this when using his knives on those monster fish. When you go to a rescue at a car or helicopter accident, you may find you are the only one around and the only tool you have is a folding knife and it had better be reliable and capable of extreme use for its size. When you find an 800 lb cow trapped in some netting or rope, stranded in the mud and water and about to drown and all you have is your folding knife, it had better not let you down. Flow through? I can clean it later. I need it now and I need it safe.

There is my rant and yes, it is based on experience.

[Woodpuppy]

I’ve never had a lock fail on me, but I’ve also never done any YouTube-style testing of any sort. I have closed a SAK up on my fingers, and as said earlier once bitten... I only have 2 frame locks, a ZT302 and Kershaw leek. I have had the leek get awfully tight in use to the point it was very difficult to close the knife. No issues with the big 302. Don’t think I have any liner locks anymore, they sure were all the rage for a while. Sure love the axis lock , it’s ambi-friendly.

[The Deacon]

A liner lock failure and a slip joint accidentally closing are not even remotely the same, unless the spring breaks on the slip joint. When a liner lock fails, and they do so with regularity when actually using them, there is nothing, zilch, nada, to keep that now free swinging blade from chopping your fingers.

True with a Walker style liner lock, not true with backspring liner locks like the Victorinox Sentinel.

[Doc Dan]

Yes, that is a different animal altogether. The lock is still not as strong but if it fails there is still that spring to help somewhat.

[Bodog]

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Interesting post. I like it.

[Bloke]

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Interesting post. I like it.

I thought so too particularly never having experienced anything close to a lock failure. :cool: