Complaints/Customer service sub forum PLEASE?

[bearfacedkiller]

I think it could be a good resource for people looking for info about problems by putting it all in one place but also think we already having too many folks using the forum as a portal to W&R. If this subforum does get created a sticky at the top reminding people that contacting W&R directly is the correct process and that W&R won't actually respond directly through the forum may be a good idea. Otherwise it makes more work for Spyderco and Charlynn. This forum is moderated less than any forum I have ever seen and I don't want to ask them to have to moderate more.

[Doc Dan]

Well, a sub-forum for this might be okay, but I doubt it. I notice that most of the complaints are cyber-bullies and trolls hiding behind their anonymity. There is a right way to complain about things and there are just plain abusive ways. I have made a couple of complaints and started threads on them but they were positively received and positively acted upon by Sal, Kristi, Christi, and company. Some folks have no manners. My point being, who is going to police all of the pure horse manure that is sure to be posted on such a sub-forum?

[sal]

Hey Darby,

Thanx for the bird pic, great idea!

RL, Thanx for the wise post, I wish more ere on top of it. A doctor almost killed my wife when she had cancer, so can relate.

Keep the discussion going and maybe we can get a handle on it. Not sure of what will work. "Sh*t doesn't happen, it always come from an a$$hole". But not all butt nuggets realize they are being idiots. Yes, we want to know the problems, and we always try to solve them, but the immaturity of "I caught Spyderco in a failing" is too common with some. We have a lot of great minds on this forum and I would prefer to keep them involved than feed the ignorant. Maybe a higher plain of understanding? Maybe a better method of teaching? Let's keep this discussion going.

thanx much.

sal

[vox801]

Hi Vox,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

Thank you Sal. Happy to be included.

[vox801]

My two cents on the sub-forum... you're opening up the flood gates for a lot of headaches, misinformation and general gripes that can be addressed with your Customer Service Dept.. And sadly, you're still going to have the same things going on the general discussion page. There's always going to be a legitimate issue or concern with a knife at some point and it's good to have that information or compare a problem with other members. Is every knife, Spyderco or any other brand, going to be a winner or perfect, no, nor is every knife going to appeal to everyone. That applies to almost everything. Nothing wrong with having an opinion or letting members know you had a bad experience with a product, no reason to be rude or obnoxious about it though. Spyderco does warranty their knifes as well as having a customer support dept.. Seems to be the better route to go with a problem. Again, just my opinion.

[bearfacedkiller]

RL makes a good point. I will explain the same thing my way. I have always believed that the people make the place.

I have moved around a lot in my life. I am living in my 8th US state at the moment and I am only 39 years old. One thing I have learned is that no matter what the place is like it is actually the people who make the place. It is the people who define the place and it is only the people who can make it good or bad.

You can live in a climate you do not care for if you are surrounded by the right people and you cannot live in a climate you love without the right people.

The people make the place and the onus is on us to make this place what we want it to be. After all, this place is a reflection of all of us, especially with Sal's preference for allowing the forum to self moderate.

We seem to like analogies around here so here goes; If you find the most amazing sports bar/pub in the world and it is filled with a bunch of D-bags than it is a crappy bar. If you find a run down dive bar filled with the nicest, warmest and most generous people then you have found the greatest bar ever.

We can elevate this place to whatever level we desire.

[Ankerson]

Not sure if a complaint forum is a good idea. I believe it might actually cause more problems as it would give all the trolls a place to go.

Spyderco has good policies in effect already, with numbers to call for Warranty and Repair.

[Evil D]

Spyderco has good policies in effect already, with numbers to call for Warranty and Repair.

You'd think that would be enough.

You guys make good points. There have always been "issue threads" but it seems the tone and attitude they're being delivered in is the problem. Like Sal said it's like every thread is about exposing some vile atrocity that Spyderco has done. I also get the whole "if you don't like it don't read it" approach but it's getting to where i skip over more threads than I read and then the ones I do read eventually take a turn for the worst.

I dunno. Maybe it's just me. Maybe I need a break.

[Ankerson]

Spyderco has good policies in effect already, with numbers to call for Warranty and Repair.

You'd think that would be enough.

You guys make good points. There have always been "issue threads" but it seems the tone and attitude they're being delivered in is the problem. Like Sal said it's like every thread is about exposing some vile atrocity that Spyderco has done. I also get the whole "if you don't like it don't read it" approach but it's getting to where i skip over more threads than I read and then the ones I do read eventually take a turn for the worst.

I dunno. Maybe it's just me. Maybe I need a break.

Ignoring them really works the best in the end, if they don't get any traction with the bait threads then they will move on.

[dreadpirate]

Spyderco has good policies in effect already, with numbers to call for Warranty and Repair.

You'd think that would be enough.

You guys make good points. There have always been "issue threads" but it seems the tone and attitude they're being delivered in is the problem. Like Sal said it's like every thread is about exposing some vile atrocity that Spyderco has done. I also get the whole "if you don't like it don't read it" approach but it's getting to where i skip over more threads than I read and then the ones I do read eventually take a turn for the worst.

I dunno. Maybe it's just me. Maybe I need a break.

Ignoring them really works the best in the end, if they don't get any traction with the bait threads then they will move on.

This ^^^ And sometimes no feedback is feedback in and of itself.

[PayneTrain]

I just think while it may be a good outlet for reasonable feedback from reasonable people, trolls are gonna troll. So for the purpose of just expressing feedback concerns, both positive and negative, sure it could be useful. But to weed out the nonsense from the main forum, I don't think that'll ever happen. And if it does work and all the negativity gets concentrated in one place, well, that just sounds like an ugly place that none of us are ever gonna wanna visit!

[benben]

Well until I get a PM3 or Yojimbo in Cru-wear, PD1, Z-wear, 3V, 4V, 10V, or Maxamet............I'm going to make this place a nightmare for all of you!! Seriously, what'd I miss? I'm a forum junkie, knives, guns, baseball, and fastpitch, and this is the nicest, most helpful group of guys in ANY forum I frequent, well this forum and one fastpitch softball forum I'm a member of!

And I'm serious about the PM3 and the Yojimbo!

[ZrowsN1s]

The frustrating part for me is the asymmetric nature of the problem, 99.9% of the people I encounter on this forum present and conduct themselves as nice, polite, good people. Heck most even seem capable of good natured joking, ribbing, and my personal favorite sarcasm. In general sometimes people are a little too short, a little too dismissive, a little too eager to say "that idea is terrible", but that is just human nature and not the problem here. The problem is a few individuals who seem to take pride in "keeping it real" and "not sugar coating" their opinions. I find most people who pride themselves on "brutal honesty", are usually just unapologetic jerks who either don't understand the concept of being rude, or are too self absorbed to care. I'd say there are less than 5 people causing problems. Am I under estimating?
Perhaps the easiest solution is this. If your posts are so abusive that they get reported, and a moderator agrees the post is inappropriate, you get a warning. On the 3rd warning you get booted and your IP is blocked so you can't just make another account.

[sal]

I think that most of the problems in attitude are from new posters that just aren't familiar with the way we conduct our house. I see it as my/we/our responsibility to raise their awareness level, edge-u-cation on product, courtesy and help them feel secure and comfortable enough to relax and enjoy the time sent here.

As Darby said, it's all about the people. That goes for everyone at Spyderco as well. The company and the forum. Kristi and I discussed this thread today and our leaning is that, "whatever the problem, education is the solution". Knowing many of you as we do, we think that it is perhaps something for which we need to pay more attention? And perhaps a little more patience? :)

sal

[PayneTrain]

Yeah, I think we've got it pretty good here. It's so unlike many other popular forums of all interests, and the spirit is contagious. It's not even like all complaint threads devolve into personal fights. Depending on the initial reaction to the complaint, sometimes the poster can be cooled down and reassured just by us members. That's one thing I fear would be lost if complaints were relegated to a separate forum where few of us may want to venture, but if they're right here in out midst, we have a chance to talk them down before things get ugly.

I don't think Sal and company have the time to manage a complaint forum. It's sort of our job! And in exchange they listen to us and reward us in ways you don't find with many other companies. It really is an interesting dynamic between Spyderco and the fans. I've said it before. We're sort of a volunteer advertising, market research, and PR department. I don't think we'd do our job as well if we didn't have the negative in the same field of view as all the positive.

But yes, there is occasionally the negative person who just can't be satisfied, and that includes true trolls who just can't get enough of causing mayhem for whatever sick reason. But they clearly don't play by the rules, and most importantly, they never stay here very long anyway. :)