Manix Lightweight in S110V

[me2]

Got this back in May and haven't really done much with it since. Carried it some, love the wire clip. No a lot of cutting other than the occasional box in the kitchen or envelope and one occasion where it was pressed into kitchen knife duty. That changed this weekend when I decided to clean out the garage.

I had some boxes to break down so I decided to try the Manix against another knife to see how it stood up. The other is not a Spydercos, so will be referred to as brand x.

Both are full flat grind with 20 DPS Sharpmaker bevels of the fine white triangles. Both have 17 DPS backbevel and 12 DPS transition bevels. The Manix was slightly used previously for opening envelopes and other such light work, but was resharpened for the test with a fine ceramic rod and would whittle beard hair.

Broke the boxes down into strips in roughly equal amounts per knife, maybe slightly more with brand x.

Handles:
Manix was fairly comfortable with no slipping. Some hot spots due to the thinner and less rounded handle. No texture issues. Love the wire clip.

Brand x was comfortable with no texture issues in use. Storing the knives in pocket revealed the clip is a little shallow to catch my pockets and quite tight, to the point I had to bend it a little too get the preferred tension. The thicker brand x handle had no issues with harder cutting.

Blade:
Both cut well. The Manix has a sharpening notch added by me which worked well. Brand x has one that is slightly too large. It would snag sometimes. Not too big a deal, but noticeable. Blade shapes were good. No issues with running out of the cut even though brand x has more belly.

Carry:
Brand x is noticeably heavier and would likely be more noticeable in pocket for extended carry. It's slightly longer which may hinder carry in some pants pockets. For the ones I had on this was not an issue.

Edge Holding:
This is where the surprise happened. Both blades were arm shaving sharp when I started, the Manix off the ceramic rod and brand x off the Sharpmaker fine white stones. By the end, the Manix and brand x were noticeably duller than at the beginning, no shock there. However, the Manix was noticeably duller than the brand x knife. Now, this might not be a surprise were the brand x knife made from a steel similar to the S110V of the Manix. However, the brand x knife is made from steel similar to 440B. Hardness and such of each blade is not known.

Resharpening:
The Manix was given 20 passes per side on the same ceramic rod used to sharpen it before the garage work. Following this, there wasn't a noticeable improvement in sharpness. Following the same 20 passes per side on the brand x blade, the sharpness had returned to arm shaving sharp. Both blades would still slice phone book paper prior to the resharpening.

Overall:
I carry the Manix to work, as it's a little more friendly than the brand x blade. It's also lighter and the lock is easier to manipulate. Basically I'd sum the comparison up as follows. If I know I'll need a knife that can do fairly heavy work I'd carry the brand x knife. If I want to carry a knife in case I need one, I'd likely carry the Manix. The pocket clip, easier lock, good cutting ability and light weight means I'd carry it all day, just in case. The heaver weight, more comfortable grip, and equal cutting ability of the brand x knife means I'd carry it if I knew I was going out to do things that undoubtedly will require a knife.

[SG89]

What steel did brand x have?

[ABX2011]

Thanks for the write up. I informally tested my Manix Lightweight S110V vs the BD1 version and there was no comparison with cardboard cutting. The S110V was a chainsaw, showing little effect from the abrasive cardboard while the BD1 dulled quickly.

[me2]

It's interesting you compare those two. Brand x is BD1, and was sharper than the S110V at the end of the test, exactly opposite.

[Cujobob]

The normal Manix is likely far more comfortable as the lightweight does compromise a bit in order to have the FRCP scales.

You may wish to use the actual name of the other product as some of us likely own one and can compare experiences.

Also, when judging edge retention, a number of things have to take place: same sharpness on each knife, same medium being cut. Cardboard, as an example, varies greatly. I would assume one of two things is to blame though: burr/wire edge on Manix or improper heat treat. It is possible the less alloyed steel of your other knife has an amazing heat treat and a much thinner grind, but fairly doubtful if it's a production piece.

[me2]

No burrs I could find. I have an extensive deburring procedure. Thea cardboard was split up wth each knife cutting from the same box at the same time. The geometries are very close. They were within a couple thousandths before rebeveling.

[Nate]

Is there a significant difference in the number of times each knife has been sharpened previously?

[me2]

No. I started to rebevel both to 12 DPS, but lost patience, then dropped to 17/20. Just once or twice each.

[bdblue]

I did a similar informal test, but with one Manix 2 (M4 steel) against another Manix 2 (S110V steel). I used heavy triple wall cardboard. The cardboard was the same for both since it all came from one large box. In my case the M4 did slightly better than the S110V but they both cut a lot. The only real difference that I couldn't quantify was that the S110V had the factory edge and the M4 had been sharpened several times.

[me2]

Resharpened both knives tonight, but had to use a slightly different procedure to get the Manix as sharp as brand x. I used a 320 grit congress tools mold master stone and then to the medium and fine Sharpmaker rods for the brand x blade. I started with the 320 on the Manix, but couldn't get as good an edge jumping to the Sharpmaker. So I went back and used a 600 grit mold master then back to the Sharpmaker. The edges are now comparable, though the brand x blade is still noticeably sharper. This is the 2nd time I've resharpened the brand x blade and the 3rd for the Manix. I need to keep playing with the Manix to see if I can get it just as sharp. Both will whittle beard hair, but the brand x will whittle head hair as well.

[swigert]

Resharpened both knives tonight, but had to use a slightly different procedure to get the Manix as sharp as brand x. I used a 320 grit congress tools mold master stone and then to the medium and fine Sharpmaker rods for the brand x blade. I started with the 320 on the Manix, but couldn't get as good an edge jumping to the Sharpmaker. So I went back and used a 600 grit mold master then back to the Sharpmaker. The edges are now comparable, though the brand x blade is still noticeably sharper. This is the 2nd time I've resharpened the brand x blade and the 3rd for the Manix. I need to keep playing with the Manix to see if I can get it just as sharp. Both will whittle beard hair, but the brand x will whittle head hair as well.

Well keep us in the loop. You are totally allowed to say the other brand. Your choice obviously.

[Evil D]

S110V certainly isn't for everyone. There have been many discussions about steels like this and whether the edge retention is worth it to a person who uses their knife daily to the point that they're dulling the blade and resharpening everyday, because the increase in hardness and wear resistance equals an increase in time it takes to get it sharp again.

From my own uses, I've had somewhat different results though. I haven't used a steel that will keep a working edge as long as S110V. I've made ~4k cuts through cardboard with it and on another occasion I did some pretty crazy hard work using nothing but my Manix 2 LW and by the end of that job it was definitely what I would consider dull but it had settled into this working edge that would probably have lasted forever and I could have kept doing what I was doing, although with a bit of an increase in effort to each cut.

[me2]

Has Spydercos HT changed for their S110V recently? This was suggested as a reason for the performance of the S110V Military lately in comparison to an older Manix 2.

[Ankerson]

Yes it was changed from the info that I have.

The LW I tested 2 years ago was 62.

The Military is 63-64.

When that was changed I have no idea, I call it progression. :spyder:

I would expect the sister models to have comparable performance.

[Cor]

Hi, I'd like to ask a general question regarding this..

I bought a Manix 2 S110V and as a result I have read up a lot about the steel and looking at everything I've read I came to the following conclusion;

Steels differ a fair amount (obviously), especially between the higher carbon and super abrasive stuff like S110V. I think it may not be fair to the steel to treat both the same. Seems S110V does better with a slightly coarser edge, as opposed to highly polished. I think just about all reviews I looked at that went to a very fine edge and highly polished finish was not favourable towards S110V. However when a slightly rougher edge was created making use of the abrasive properties of the steel it cut exceptionally well. Now I am no expert so I may be missing the mark entirely. I do think to get the best from a specific steel one has to treat it on an individual basis and play to its strength, so sharpening technique needs to differ depending on what you are working with. Would love to hear the more knowledgeable people's take on this as like I said, I am no expert and may be missing the mark entirely...

The other point that stood out for me was the idea of a "working edge" seems the S110V would loose that top 5% or so of sharpness and then settle into that working edge and retain that for a silly long time. This looks like one of the main advantages of the steel. With the drawback being obviously the effort it takes to sharpen it.

Anyhow, just observations from other people's efforts and something I plan on playing around with.

Cheers,
Cor

[me2]

Yes it was changed from the info that I have.

The LW I tested 2 years ago was 62.

The Military is 63-64.

When that was changed I have no idea, I call it progression. :spyder:

I would expect the sister models to have comparable performance.

Any ideas what was changed? Given the +/- 1 point precision of most hardness testing, aren't those essentially the same hardness (63 +/-1)?

I've only had my Manix a few months. Could this change in HT account for its less than noteworthy performance compared to BD1 above?

[me2]

Hi, I'd like to ask a general question regarding this..

I bought a Manix 2 S110V and as a result I have read up a lot about the steel and looking at everything I've read I came to the following conclusion;

Steels differ a fair amount (obviously), especially between the higher carbon and super abrasive stuff like S110V. I think it may not be fair to the steel to treat both the same. Seems S110V does better with a slightly coarser edge, as opposed to highly polished. I think just about all reviews I looked at that went to a very fine edge and highly polished finish was not favourable towards S110V. However when a slightly rougher edge was created making use of the abrasive properties of the steel it cut exceptionally well. Now I am no expert so I may be missing the mark entirely. I do think to get the best from a specific steel one has to treat it on an individual basis and play to its strength, so sharpening technique needs to differ depending on what you are working with. Would love to hear the more knowledgeable people's take on this as like I said, I am no expert and may be missing the mark entirely...

The other point that stood out for me was the idea of a "working edge" seems the S110V would loose that top 5% or so of sharpness and then settle into that working edge and retain that for a silly long time. This looks like one of the main advantages of the steel. With the drawback being obviously the effort it takes to sharpen it.

Anyhow, just observations from other people's efforts and something I plan on playing around with.

Cheers,
Cor

The working edge thing is not unique to S110. Basically any steel shows the same thing. Dulling is most rapid from a freshly sharpened edge and slows down as more is cut. The easiest place to see this is from a graph of CATRA cutting tests. There are some on here, as Spyderco has their own CATRA machine. You can't look at the final member; you have see the whole graph. There is a fairly rapid drop, then a transition point, then a long plateu where dulling happens very slowly.

The coarse edge issue isn't unique to S110 either. Any steel will slice longer with a coarser edge finish, as long as it's actually sharp to start with. The key word is slice. I tend to do more push cutting and tend to sharpen to a higher finish for most knives, Spyderco fine ceramic or medium ceramic. Some knives do get a coarser edge, but they tend to get used by other people too, like my kitchen knives. Wayne Goddard was the first person i saw write about this in his first book. He and many others favor something like a Norton Fine India stone which is still fairly coarse compared to the medium and fine ceramics. The biggest variable is the user. Do the actually use the knife in s way that a coarser finish will make it better.

[Cor]

Thanks, learned something new! Thank you for taking the time to reply!

Cheers

[me2]

I'm at work. Nothing else to do. You're welcome.

[ejames13]

This thread should be titled, "Guess the knife..."

Can we have the brand/model please? AFAIK, there's no rule against mentioning other manufacturers on this forum.