Why the Endura beats the Military

[Doc Dan]

1. The Endura is a lot lighter in weight.
2. The blade thickness advantage of the Military quickly becomes mute 1/3 of the blade past the pivot. After that they are similar.
3. The Endura has a simple ambidextrous lock.
4. The actual grippable area of the handle is much longer on the Endura. Those with gloves or big hands take note.
5. The blade lengths are close but the handle length of the Endura is shorter.
6. The Endura is more size efficient.
7. The Endura has that wonderful non-skid, non-slip bi-directional texturing.
8. The Endura comes in many color choices and steel choices, standard.
9. The Endura is much slimmer and therefore easier to carry.

[Evil D]

1. It's less than an oz of weight. I wouldn't call either one heavy.
2. A thicker blade at the pivot means a stronger pivot and lock.
3. Can't fault your logic here, but back locks are boring to me. Sorry. Liner locks also allow for open construction, which I greatly prefer over typical liner lock construction.
4. I have massive hands and have used my Military while wearing sub zero wool mittens. I had plenty of handle. A man who doesn't have enough grip area on a Military is going to have issues on probably any folder.
5. I agree with this one, and I hope they either balance out the ratio on the Military 2 by adding a little blade length, or trim down the butt on the grip where needed so long as they don't sacrifice grip area.
6. Not sure what you mean here but I'm assuming you mean blade to handle ratio. See #5.
7. It also has a grip that forces my hand into one position, and that position results in my fingers being right on the points of the grip, which sucks. I can also modify G10/CF to my liking and finish it to look like it was factory done. Once you grind up into the bidirectional pattern, you can't really make it look good. Can't say my Military, or any G10 knife, has ever slipped out of my hand either. That said, I would love to see some patterns machined into G10 in the future, if no other reason than aesthetics.
8. I wouldn't mind more color options as standard production, but more often than not I'd probably stick with black. As for steel choices, I'd say the same thing applies, I would love it if some of the sprints the Military has come in were standard production, but then there are those who would argue that exclusivity is also a favorable trait, so it's a matter of preference.

Why the Military beats the Endura:

1. Ergonomics. It has a handle shape that allows for many grip positions without any hot spots or needless points in the finger area. It also has a 50/50 choil for choking up on the grip for fine detailed carving/etc.
2. Open pillar construction for easier cleaning without disassembly.
3. Smoother pivot action, less force required to open.
4. Thicker tang, larger pivot pin = stronger knife overall
5. Beefy blade but still has a fine point for detailed work.
6. Larger thumb hole, makes opening easier especially with gloves on.
7. Better sprint steel/handle combo options/history
8. Made in the USA/Golden. Though I don't look down on the Japan/Taichung/etc knives, I would also prefer they were all made in Golden if I had the choice.
9. Better flickability
10. Aesthetically, I just think it's a way better looking knife. I hate the lower tang area on most back locks where the handle and blade meet when opened, and there's that big gap there, and then there's the gap when the blade is closed and the tang is sticking out. The Military is just more fluid and curvy and sexy looking.

Anyway, all pretty subjective points on both sides for the most part. I think a better comparison would be the Endura vs. Police.

[Doc Dan]

You beat me to it on the qualities of the Military. I was going to do a part 2 on why the Military beats the Endura. :)
I love both knives for different reasons.

The Police I have little experience with. It is too heavy, too long, and too pricey for my taste.

[Jazz]

I think the Milli's handle is too long. It's a pocket wearer, and could be shortened a bit. I like them both, but the Endura wins out most times. When I go into the mountain trails (rarely) I take the little extra blade length. I really dislike liner locks. Can't believe I actually like the Milli, in that respect.

[dplafoll]

I don't understand this thread at all. They're both objectively very good knives, but you guys are trying to use subjective preference as objective advantages/disadvantages. :p

Seriously though, I don't think there are any real objective reasons to say that one is better than the other. IMO a better title of this thread would be "Why I think the Endura beats the Military". Personally, I want (at least) one of each, as they're different knives with different aesthetics and design language(the blade shape is more like convergent evolution). Money no object, I'd have bought the HAP-40 Endura and 52100 Millie by now. In fact, my local B&M store has both still in stock, and it makes my Spydie sense itch every time I go in there to take a look. In fact, as it is Friday, that'll be today. I might have to fondle both of them and take pics and post them in this thread for you guys.

[Doc Dan]

The Endura is a better knife for most uses, in my opinion, and I listed the reasons why I think so. I am certain you did not mean to talk down to me regarding my well reasoned preferences. In most cases, the lock, slimness, shorter length, larger grip area, and more are just right for me. Like David, I have very large, thick hands and I do like the Military. However, my hands are up on both the front and rear guards on the Millie. The Endura still leaves me some extra room. I do have to file off that irritating middle bump till it is flat, but after that, it is really nice. For EDC, or a walk in the woods, the Endura is it. In fact this is the knife I carry when I go for my daily walks as the light weight does not drag down my shorts.

[Evil D]

The point in my post was a bit of friendly parry and joust and to kind of point out that this kind of thing really is more subjective than anything. Both are obviously great knives or they wouldn't have been around for so many years.

[rodloos]

I think the Endura may seem like a better value for the cost.

To me they both are very wonderful knives, comfortable in the hand, have been made in wonderful Sprint steels ( and the "regular" steels of VG10 and S30V are actually pretty decent).

In *my* opinion the (fluted Ti) Military is prettier than the Endura :).

Really hard to go wrong with either one.

Real solution though is to carry an Endura in your left hand and Military in your right (unless you happen to have purchased one of those left-handed Millies :D .

[bearfacedkiller]

I prefer everything about the Military over the Endura except for the lock. I prefer backlocks to liner locks. I find the Military much easier to use with winter gloves on and I spend a lot of time outside in the winter. I find the Endura handle very awkward. The fluted ti Military is one of the best knives Spyderco has ever made in my opinion and my Cruwear Military is simply amazing.

[farnorthdan]

I've tried to like the Endura, I really have. Delica, I like but Military's I love, I must, I'm up to 9 :D

[dplafoll]

The Endura is a better knife for most uses, in my opinion, and I listed the reasons why I think so. I am certain you did not mean to talk down to me regarding my well reasoned preferences. In most cases, the lock, slimness, shorter length, larger grip area, and more are just right for me. Like David, I have very large, thick hands and I do like the Military. However, my hands are up on both the front and rear guards on the Millie. The Endura still leaves me some extra room. I do have to file off that irritating middle bump till it is flat, but after that, it is really nice. For EDC, or a walk in the woods, the Endura is it. In fact this is the knife I carry when I go for my daily walks as the light weight does not drag down my shorts.

Oh man I am sorry if your second sentence is directed to me at all. I just think comparing them is to compare personal preferences, and we should all just celebrate the fact that Spyderco gives us something for almost everyone. :D

[OldHoosier62]

Have both, carry both and use both....If I have a lot of cutting to do, the Military gets the call. Better ergonomics for me (big hands, broad palms) than the Endura. I carried a pair of Enduras for most of my USMC career and love the things but the Military just cuts better in my hands and that is what matters to me.

YMMV

[Doc Dan]

The point in my post was a bit of friendly parry and joust and to kind of point out that this kind of thing really is more subjective than anything. Both are obviously great knives or they wouldn't have been around for so many years.

My comment was not directed at you.

[Doc Dan]

The Military does have wonderful characteristics. I have one and will buy another. Strangely, I prefer the Millie to the Para. Maybe it is my large hand size. (I do like the Para, though, to someone in need. But I gave mine away and still have a Millie and an Endura).

[awa54]

I'm surprised that the four position clip wasn't the number one reason cited for the Endura being "better" than the Military.

Guess I'll have to get an Endura, so I can compare it to the KW exclusive Millie I just ordered...

[Surfingringo]

Neither is perfect for me. I love most everything about the Millie but I much prefer the backlock and 4 way clip of the endura.

[Evil D]

I'm surprised that the four position clip wasn't the number one reason cited for the Endura being "better" than the Military.

Guess I'll have to get an Endura, so I can compare it to the KW exclusive Millie I just ordered...

It's a win win/lose lose for me. On one hand I love having clip options, on the other hand I hate having all those unused holes. I wouldn't mind trying the Military tip up, but I also love the fact that it doesn't have any unnecessary holes all over it. It makes for a really clean looking knife.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Here is a question about this: Would it be feasible for Spyderco to somehow take the best agreed-upon design features of BOTH knives: The basic Endura 4, and ,the basic Military, and somehow fuse and combine these design positives, to make a sortof "Endura Military" combination knife, that has all of the good design features we like, and none of the downsides to it? I am sure this must be possible. How would this be brought about and what would be some "fused features" you would all like to see?

[Evil D]

Here is a question about this: Would it be feasible for Spyderco to somehow take the best agreed-upon design features of BOTH knives: The basic Endura 4, and ,the basic Military, and somehow fuse and combine these design positives, to make a sortof "Endura Military" combination knife, that has all of the good design features we like, and none of the downsides to it? I am sure this must be possible. How would this be brought about and what would be some "fused features" you would all like to see?

I have no doubt the group of designers at Golden sit around and ask this exact question probably everyday. How can they add the best and most popular attributes of each knife into one super knife. I bet if you could pick Sal's brain you'd find that some knives came to be because of this sort of thinking. The problem is really narrowing down what those most popular traits are, since as you can see in this thread, not everyone agrees on everything.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Good point David. Because each Spyderco user has different needs and different parameters for what makes their use of a knife desired. Like in the other thread where an H1 bladed Military or Paramilitary was requested. With all the good features of the knife, but, with the extra corrosion-resistance of that steel.