FRN and FRCP, what do we know?

[Donut]

I was looking around for a new bottle opener and I found one made of a "high tech polymer". Very little information about the material. I filled out the contact form asking for more information about the material.

I got a reply and they say the material is made of about 70% glass.

I believe this stuff feels a little more sturdy than FRN. (I could be wrong.)

Do we know anything about FRN beside that it is made from fiberglass and nylon?

Was any knife produced with FRCP? (I think the answer to that was no.) Do we know anything about FRCP?


I know the FRN works really well and has enough bend to it.

[Jazz]

Aren't the lightweight Manixes FRCP? Feel more slippery to me. A lot more, in fact. I like FRN way more.

[Blerv]

Yea the Manix2's are FRCP or at least the clear BD1 is.

For all intents and purposes I hear it's more rigid. Spyderco's FRN formula is my favorite of all the glass polymers tho, it's a great mix of rigid and pliable.

[The Deacon]

What do we know? Not a heck of a lot, really. We know FRN is made with chopped up glass fibers mixed into a nylon matrix. We know that, while it is quite flexible, like most materials it will fatigue and eventually break if flexed often enough (hence the demise of integral clip FRN handles). We know that, aside from that, it's quite durable. We know, based on observations, that Spyderco FRCP handles "feel" harder and slicker than Spyderco FRN handles. That's about it.

For FRN, the percentage of glass fibers is unknown, as is the average length and diameter of those And, since "nylon" is an entire family of plastics, exact type of nylon, unknown.

Same questions regarding glass content apply to FRCP, and since the number of co-polymers is considerably larger than the variety of nylons, even less about the matix in which that glass fiber is captive.

[paladin]

I've learned to love the texture of Spyderco's recipe of FRN, whatever the ingredients and percentages thereof. :D

The FRN of the lightweight N5 seems different to me in a tactile sense, however. :confused:

And when I drop my LW N5 on the floor or the pocketclip snaps on the handle it doesn't even sound the same as the FRN on my other models of Native. :confused:

As for FRCP, it's a deal breaker for me if it's on a model I'm considering....

I admit, I sound like a snob or some sort of a FRN connoisseur :o ...but it's Sal's fault :spyder: :p

[twinboysdad]

I've learned to love the texture of Spyderco's recipe of FRN, whatever the ingredients and percentages thereof. :D

The FRN of the lightweight N5 seems different to me in a tactile sense, however. :confused:

And when I drop my LW N5 on the floor or the pocketclip snaps on the handle it doesn't even sound the same as the FRN on my other models of Native. :confused:

As for FRCP, it's a deal breaker for me if it's on a model I'm considering....

I admit, I sound like a snob or some sort of a FRN connoisseur :o ...but it's Sal's fault :spyder: :p

I agree on the N5 and I chalk it up to no liners, even though it seems more hollow than my PAC Salt which also has no liners. Even the sound the clip makes against the Native 5 LW feels and sounds different than say E4. I am over it though and enjoying the S110V N5 LW, have it in my pocket right now

[The Deacon]

The FRN of the lightweight N5 seems different to me in a tactile sense, however. :confused:

And when I drop my LW N5 on the floor or the pocketclip snaps on the handle it doesn't even sound the same as the FRN on my other models of Native. :confused:

Several possible reasons. Older Native LW handles are one single piece of FRN. Native 5 LW handle is 3 pieces and has indentations on the inside, probably to reduce weight. It is also a different texture on the outside. Any of those, or some combination of them, could account for the different "tone".

[Doc Dan]

I do not know if one is better than the other, or not. I assume they are close. But, the Japanese FRN and the FRCP made in America feel different. The FRCP "feels" harder and more plastic toy like while the FRN "feels" softer and warmer, if all that makes sense.

[paladin]

I do not know if one is better than the other, or not. I assume they are close. But, the Japanese FRN and the FRCP made in America feel different. The FRCP "feels" harder and more plastic toy like while the FRN "feels" softer and warmer, if all that makes sense.

exactly my experience also...and I prefer the "softer"

[tap78]

From my observations FRN dents and FRCP chips while dropped on the concrete...

[yablanowitz]

I love how people think. They whined for years about "handle flex" on FRN knives, so Sal gives them more ridged FRCP, and they don't like it because it "feels harder".

[anagarika]

Perhaps those who complained about FRN flex are not those who said FRCP hard? Two groups of people? :D

In any case, I like Seki's FRN. N5 FRN felt a bit harder & less flex, but that might be because of dimension (smaller/shorter = less flex).

[Jazz]

A bit of flex is good, and the FRN on the Delicas feel absolutely fantastic. Perfect amount of grip. I'm a huge FRN fan. Down to -20 degrees, it's the way to go for me. I tested it years ago. Beat the crap out of a knife "for science".

[paladin]

I love how people think. They whined for years about "handle flex" on FRN knives, so Sal gives them more ridged FRCP, and they don't like it because it "feels harder".

It wasn't me...

But I do recall many, many members voicing their opinions about FRN <even the old stuff> feeling "cheap and plasticky"...

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I have not yet handled the knives made with FRCP but the FRN is one of my all-time top favorite handle materials. I like soft rubbery ones like Kraton copolymer on some handles but FRN is the best. Without mentioning company names and knives, while other companies that use some variation of glass-reinforced nylon polymer are okay, and suit their purposes, Spyderco has the formula down, perfectly. Thank you all at Spyderco for this. FRN has, in my opinion as a knife user and collector, the right balance of rigidity and stiffness, coupled with the right balance of good grippability, as well as being resistant to water and oils and other things. At the end of the day, the FRN is also comfortable, in addition to its other abilities.

I knew someone who was more into "classic folders" with "natural handles" and who was convinced that ALL forms of polymers for knife and tool handles = "childish toys" and was convinced (this was in the middle to late 1980s) that ALL polymer based knife handles would be rejected and people would stick to wood. What I found kindof funny was, he loved Micarta. Technically, micarta is more of a synthetic material, like FRN, since it is cloth and paper and other materials permeated with polymer resins.

Anyhow, FRN I believe has proven itself time and time again and Spyderco's FRN handles are the best. No competition as far as I am concerned.

[Bill1170]

I agree, the Seki FRN is the perfect balance between hard and soft. It's hard enough to hold its shape, yet soft enough to feel good in hand and resist chipping. Wonderful material.

[darr3n]

I will say that I've had no success dyeing FRCP whereas I've dyed many a FRN Spydie.

[Cujobob]

I do prefer the way FRN feels though that could just be due to the particular molds and designs as the Manix 2 is a different beast than a Delica. FRN flexes quite a bit, though, not something I like.

[demoncase]

What do we know? Not a heck of a lot, really. We know FRN is made with chopped up glass fibers mixed into a nylon matrix. We know that, while it is quite flexible, like most materials it will fatigue and eventually break if flexed often enough (hence the demise of integral clip FRN handles). We know that, aside from that, it's quite durable. We know, based on observations, that Spyderco FRCP handles "feel" harder and slicker than Spyderco FRN handles. That's about it.

For FRN, the percentage of glass fibers is unknown, as is the average length and diameter of those And, since "nylon" is an entire family of plastics, exact type of nylon, unknown.

Same questions regarding glass content apply to FRCP, and since the number of co-polymers is considerably larger than the variety of nylons, even less about the matix in which that glass fiber is captive.

For those interested in such things, you could:
Cut up an FRN or FRCN handle.
Mount the slice into a suitable Struers mounting resin.
Polish up the surface
Take a gander under a microscope with a calibrated graticule and get an idea of the size/shape/distribution of the fibres in the polymer.

If you were then feeling really cute and had the right kit- a microhardness check on the polymer substrate and the fibres would give you some idea of the mass properties.
https://www.labtesting.com/services/mat ... s-testing/

An XRF test on the same would give you a basic idea of the relative volumes of the elements in the material.

THEN if you really, REALLY wanted to know- you could take a sub 1g sample of the FRN and run it through a thermogravimetric analysis kit that runs up to 2000oC and you could get a grip on the basic burn off points of each component of the polymer and the glass, combine that with the XRF result and hardness test then make a series of educated guesses about the range of compositions that make up the FRN or FRCN......

But your talking about spending about 1/2 to 3/4 million dollars on kit to find out the precise composition of the handle of a $100 knife....and it wouldn't get you any closer to actually being able to mould the stuff in the first place.

[Donut]

I will start saving. :p