S90V cladded?

[Ruarch]

So I am looking through my 2016 Spyderco product guide wishing I had more liquid assets and I come to the sprint run page. Now I am trying to decide which Military to get, I only really want one, but I want it to be a **** good one. I don't know anything about 52100 steel and I was about todo some research on the topic when I noticed the sprint run just above it and something struck me as odd. The Manix 2 sprint is S90V cladded in CPM 154. I was under the impression that S90V is very stain resistant, at least in my experience it is, but is that still the reason for the cladding? Why would Spyderco clad S90V? I am puzzled and curious. I am sure there is a good explanation, but it escapes me.

[Able Dog]

Corrosion resistance isn't the only reason for cladding steel. Another reason to use clad steel is to cut down on machining and grinding costs.

But I'm sure Spyderco can explain the choice definitively.

[Studey]

I might be wrong, but I think I remember reading that it was to see if it could be done with that steel?

[RadioactiveSpyder]

:)

//forum.spyderco.com/viewtopic.php?t=62959" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[can't freehand]

nother reason to use clad steel is to cut down on machining and grinding costs.

but why then use 154cm and not 420j2?

[adancingmonkey]

Pretty sure there is no reason other than to make a cool knife.

[Able Dog]

nother reason to use clad steel is to cut down on machining and grinding costs.

but why then use 154cm and not 420j2?

I don't know to be honest. There has been discussion about various cladding steels on Bladeforums, and one theory people have mentioned is that the steel used for cladding needs to also be appropriate for the desired heat treat on the core steel.

Not sure what truth there is to that, but there has to be some reason.

[SouthernCross]

....but why then use 154cm and not 420j2?

My experience with cladded blades, what cold steel describes as "San Mai" and Fallkniven describes as "laminated blades" is restricted to a number of Fallkniven blades that they have describes as either...laminated SGPS (eg the U2) with SGPS at the core & 420J2 (at RC 56) as outer layers; and what they also call 3G steel that has the same edging steel i.e. SGPS as the Core & VG2 (at RC 59) as the outer layers. Guess which doesn't scratch as much....the 3G with a harder outer layer of steel :)

For the moment forget the fact that the Vikings & makers of Samari Swords understood that a softer outer layer helped to protect a harder core steel (that provided the cutting edge) from torsional forces and when a high carbon edging steel is laminated with an external stainless steel it will help protect the high carbon edging steel from corrosion away from the exposed edge.

Could it be that Sal, Eric & co at Spyderco have listened to their customers who have expressed concerns about how easily the outer layers of the laminated Sydercos are to scratch and are looking to remedy this with a different external laminate steel that may prove to be more scratch resistant?

Mick

[Able Dog]

Here is a thread that Ed Schempp started about the S90v/CPM154 laminate, //forum.spyderco.com/viewtopic.php?t=58604" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In it he talks a bit about what the benefits of using CPM154 for the cladding are, with possibly the biggest advantages being that CPM154 is more scratch resistant than 420J2 and takes a gorgeous polish.

So cool factor and aesthetics are part of the equation.

[Doc Dan]

For certain the 154cm is much more scratch resistant than 420j. Perhaps the 154CM has other characteristics than S90V?
http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/st ... hrn=1&gm=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bpahk]

Here is a thread that Ed Schempp started about the S90v/CPM154 laminate, //forum.spyderco.com/viewtopic.php?t=58604" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for sharing that link. That was one of the most interesting threads I've read in a long time. It's amazing to see an open discussion from the guys pioneering new materials -- from the guy rolling the steel to custom makers to users. It's really a shame that thread had to be closed cuz of one douche

[Ed Schempp]

A decade ago I pestered Dick Barber (S30V designer) and Crucible about making a laminate. Crucible didn't have funds for the protect. When GMC went bankrupt they started buying their powdered metals from off shore and Crucible lost their best customer and they went bankrupt. After reorganization they had money's for R&D and asked me for a recommendation for a laminate, because Dick had saved a file on our emailed conversation about laminates. Choosing from their list of products, I suggested that for the folding knife market that they use a higher Carbon clad than the normal .4% carbon materials to avoid scratching that Affi's were complaining about. I suggested 154cm from their range of products as a clad for S90V. Crucible has proprietary info on high temp modulous of elasticity which suggested compatibility. s90V and 154cm were compatible and used for the experiment. Crucibles heat treat was refined and showed that there was 5 point difference in the Rockwell hardness between the clad and core giving a synergy to the laminate that neither mono steel could achieve, yielding a tougher stronger blade. The laminate is stronger, less grinding resistance, and slightly easier to finish.
Crucible has also made cpm 154cm clad 10v laminate at the recommendation of Phil Wilson, which should be another high performance laminate. I'm looking forward to future laminates...Take Care...Ed

[Doc Dan]

Thanks for that! I love clad steels. I love the tech. I bought a Caly 3 specifically because of this.

Interesting. I do not know a great deal about steels, but I find it interesting that they have to be compatible with each other in order for the cladding to work. Whoda thunk it?

I think I feel a Manix S90V/154Cm in my future.

[VashHash]

Crucible has also made cpm 154cm clad 10v laminate at the recommendation of Phil Wilson

Now this sounds very interesting.

[TazKristi]

It's important to note, the upcoming C101CFPE2 Manix 2 with CPM 154/CPM S90V is not cladded or laminated. The process is different. It is a composite.

I was under the impression that S90V is very stain resistant, at least in my experience it is, but is that still the reason for the cladding? Why would Spyderco clad S90V? I am puzzled and curious. I am sure there is a good explanation, but it escapes me.

Not many, if any, manufactures can work with this material. Some might be able to, but choose not to. It's definitely not easy and it presented many challenges in the factory. The explanation as to "why?" truthfully just comes down to - because we can. We're proud of that. Ultimately, it gives all of you the opportunity to try something that is really special and that opportunity comes in a reasonably affordable production knife.

Kristi

[swigert]

It's important to note, the upcoming C101CFPE2 Manix 2 with CPM 154/CPM S90V is not cladded or laminated. The process is different. It is a composite.

I was under the impression that S90V is very stain resistant, at least in my experience it is, but is that still the reason for the cladding? Why would Spyderco clad S90V? I am puzzled and curious. I am sure there is a good explanation, but it escapes me.

Not many, if any, manufactures can work with this material. Some might be able to, but choose not to. It's definitely not easy and it presented many challenges in the factory. The explanation as to "why?" truthfully just comes down to - because we can. We're proud of that. Ultimately, it gives all of you the opportunity to try something that is really special and that opportunity comes in a reasonably affordable production knife.

Kristi

Production?!?!?! Awesome.

[TazKristi]

Production?!?!?! Awesome.

Meaning produced in our factory vs. being made in much smaller quantities by a custom knifemaker. It is a Sprint Run.

[SpyderNut]

Production?!?!?! Awesome.

Meaning produced in our factory vs. being made in much smaller quantities by a custom knifemaker. It is a Sprint Run.

Kristi, would this eventually be considered for a regular production at some point by chance?

[TazKristi]

Production?!?!?! Awesome.

Meaning produced in our factory vs. being made in much smaller quantities by a custom knifemaker. It is a Sprint Run.

Kristi, would this eventually be considered for a regular production at some point by chance?

There aren't any plans for making these regular production models.

Kristi

[SpyderNut]

Production?!?!?! Awesome.

Meaning produced in our factory vs. being made in much smaller quantities by a custom knifemaker. It is a Sprint Run.

Kristi, would this eventually be considered for a regular production at some point by chance?

There aren't any plans for making these regular production models.

Kristi

Thanks, Kristi. I will have to get the Sprint now.