HAP40 Delica and Endura

[awa54]

Any news on these sprints?

In the "casual bombshell" thread, Sal was quoted on Oct 2nd saying enduras should ship next week.

well dang, what about us Delica folks?!?

[awa54]

Screw the lines or the clad steel scratching...it is about getting a solid slab of awesome steel. That way no matter if I choose to make a Jandura out of it or break the tip and have to grind a new one it is solid through out. Sure I can tell how HAP 40 cuts and sharpens but not how it mods or regrinds. Solid slab is just better, there is no argument

The reasoning behind laminate blades is that you get the ability to run the core steel harder than is advisable in a homogenous steel blade, yet have a blade that is not prone to snapping under side load. The Japanese seem to favor dead soft cladding so a blade bends but doesn't snap, others choose spring hardness cladding to give the blade more resilience and bend resistance. It essentially provides the benefits of differential tempering but in a process that can be mass produced.

If the HAP40 knives are coming with an upper limit hardness HT (I'm hoping!) then the laminate blade will probably be significantly more resistant to breakage, to get the same durability in straight HAP40 would likely mean lowering the final hardness by several points. I'll take the higher hardness over a solid blade any day!

To each their own though...

[HarleyXJGuy]

Any news on these sprints?

In the "casual bombshell" thread, Sal was quoted on Oct 2nd saying enduras should ship next week.

well dang, what about us Delica folks?!?

Delica is suppose to be next I think.

[Ryno]

I'm curious if there will be any real-world performance difference between hap40 and super blue. This SB delica is unbelievable.

[farnorthdan]

My understanding is that the Endura will be released first, supposedly next week.

[Nasgul]

It's not your understanding, but what Sal wrote

Endura's Should be shipping in the next week.

sal

Saw it on BF, dated 2nd of October 2015.

[farnorthdan]

It's not your understanding, but what Sal wrote

Endura's Should be shipping in the next week.

sal

Saw it on BF, dated 2nd of October 2015.

Well yea, that's how I understood it funny guy :D

[bchan]

Hello all, I come to this thread late, and I haven't read through all the posts in the thread, but I would be grateful if someone could confirm the correctness (or otherwise) of my understanding of the HAP40 steel:

(1) it is not stainless;
(2) the purpose of the cladding (which is another unknown material to me) is to prevent rust.

I specifically raise the question of rusting because the place where I live has high humidity. Thanks.

[Nasgul]

It's not your understanding, but what Sal wrote

Endura's Should be shipping in the next week.

sal

Saw it on BF, dated 2nd of October 2015.

Well yea, that's how I understood it funny guy :D

:D

[Ryno]

Hello all, I come to this thread late, and I haven't read through all the posts in the thread, but I would be grateful if someone could confirm the correctness (or otherwise) of my understanding of the HAP40 steel:

(1) it is not stainless;
(2) the purpose of the cladding (which is another unknown material to me) is to prevent rust.

I specifically raise the question of rusting because the place where I live has high humidity. Thanks.

That's correct

[DougC-3]

Hello all, I come to this thread late, and I haven't read through all the posts in the thread, but I would be grateful if someone could confirm the correctness (or otherwise) of my understanding of the HAP40 steel:

(1) it is not stainless;
(2) the purpose of the cladding (which is another unknown material to me) is to prevent rust.

I specifically raise the question of rusting because the place where I live has high humidity. Thanks.

That's correct

True, but as awa54 said, it can also make for a stronger, less brittle blade with a better edge. Centuries ago the Japanese learned that if they tempered their swords to an extremely hard state they would be very brittle and break during battle. They learned to put wet clay along the top part of the blade to lessen the tempering effect and make the area under the spine stronger and more break resistant, while leaving the edge hard, for better sharpening. I think this is one type at least, of the "differential tempering" awa54 is talking about in the quote below. Cladding leaves a good bit of the blade uncovered and oxide will form on the exposed part, but in my experience this is no problem, even though I live in a humid area, and a lot of knife knuts, including me :) like to watch this patina form. The cladding helps prevent rust from forming on the tang and pivot area. The patina on Super Blue steel knives is a sort of blackish oxide which seems to be more self-limiting than the usual red rust we see on iron or steel. It remains to be seen (by me at least) how the HAP40 behaves.

The reasoning behind laminate blades is that you get the ability to run the core steel harder than is advisable in a homogenous steel blade, yet have a blade that is not prone to snapping under side load. The Japanese seem to favor dead soft cladding so a blade bends but doesn't snap, others choose spring hardness cladding to give the blade more resilience and bend resistance. It essentially provides the benefits of differential tempering but in a process that can be mass produced.

If the HAP40 knives are coming with an upper limit hardness HT (I'm hoping!) then the laminate blade will probably be significantly more resistant to breakage, to get the same durability in straight HAP40 would likely mean lowering the final hardness by several points. I'll take the higher hardness over a solid blade any day!

To each their own though...

[SpeedHoles]

Anybody get a shipping confirmation yet??

[Ryno]

Hello all, I come to this thread late, and I haven't read through all the posts in the thread, but I would be grateful if someone could confirm the correctness (or otherwise) of my understanding of the HAP40 steel:

(1) it is not stainless;
(2) the purpose of the cladding (which is another unknown material to me) is to prevent rust.

I specifically raise the question of rusting because the place where I live has high humidity. Thanks.

That's correct

True, but as awa54 said, it can also make for a stronger, less brittle blade with a better edge. Centuries ago the Japanese learned that if they tempered their swords to an extremely hard state they would be very brittle and break during battle. They learned to put wet clay along the top part of the blade to lessen the tempering effect and make the area under the spine stronger and more break resistant, while leaving the edge hard, for better sharpening. I think this is one type at least, of the "differential tempering" awa54 is talking about in the quote below. Cladding leaves a good bit of the blade uncovered and oxide will form on the exposed part, but in my experience this is no problem, even though I live in a humid area, and a lot of knife knuts, including me :) like to watch this patina form. The cladding helps prevent rust from forming on the tang and pivot area. The patina on Super Blue steel knives is a sort of blackish oxide which seems to be more self-limiting than the usual red rust we see on iron or steel. It remains to be seen (by me at least) how the HAP40 behaves.

The reasoning behind laminate blades is that you get the ability to run the core steel harder than is advisable in a homogenous steel blade, yet have a blade that is not prone to snapping under side load. The Japanese seem to favor dead soft cladding so a blade bends but doesn't snap, others choose spring hardness cladding to give the blade more resilience and bend resistance. It essentially provides the benefits of differential tempering but in a process that can be mass produced.

If the HAP40 knives are coming with an upper limit hardness HT (I'm hoping!) then the laminate blade will probably be significantly more resistant to breakage, to get the same durability in straight HAP40 would likely mean lowering the final hardness by several points. I'll take the higher hardness over a solid blade any day!

To each their own though...

I would like to have seen something a little harder used for the cladding. I understand why the Japanese may have used very soft cladding so sword blades bend rather than break, but a bent blade on a folder will likely mean it is no longer a folder.

[farnorthdan]

Anybody get a shipping confirmation yet??

Not sure these have dropped yet, soon I hope...with a little bit of understanding :D

[awa54]

I would like to have seen something a little harder used for the cladding. I understand why the Japanese may have used very soft cladding so sword blades bend rather than break, but a bent blade on a folder will likely mean it is no longer a folder.

I totally concur, something like AUS6, 420 or another medium carbon stainless that would provide a springy support to the core would make for a better "beater" blade, but the hitch is finding a cladding steel that shares enough in common with the core steel that the heat treatment would leave it spring tempered (or its max hardness would still have characteristics of resilience, without brittleness) while the core was full hardness... plus they've got to weld together in a production process and come from vendors that are available to the blade maker. I'd guess there is a pretty compelling reason that 410 was chosen, maybe it was supplier or budget related, but I'm content to take these blades as supplied, a bent blade is still better than a snapped blade in my book... if you need a real beater, then choose a different knife in a different steel, Spyderco's got you covered there!

[SpeedHoles]

Anybody get a shipping confirmation yet??

Not sure these have dropped yet, soon I hope...with a little bit of understanding :D

Oh, I thought I vaguely read somewhere they were going out Oct. 2nd.... could be wrong.

[SpeedHoles]

a bent blade is still better than a snapped blade in my book... if you need a real beater, then choose a different knife in a different steel, Spyderco's got you covered there!

Just what I was thinking!

[FCM415]

Anybody get a shipping confirmation yet??

Not sure these have dropped yet, soon I hope...with a little bit of understanding :D

Oh, I thought I vaguely read somewhere they were going out Oct. 2nd.... could be wrong.

On Oct. 2nd, Sal posted on Bladeforums that the Endura will be shipping out to dealers in a week or so.

[SpeedHoles]

Anybody get a shipping confirmation yet??

Not sure these have dropped yet, soon I hope...with a little bit of understanding :D

Oh, I thought I vaguely read somewhere they were going out Oct. 2nd.... could be wrong.

On Oct. 2nd, Sal posted on Bladeforums that the Endura will be shipping out to dealers in a week or so.

Thanks for clarification.

[ABX2011]

Knifeworks just opened up preorder for the Endura HAP40.