Why no choil on the Delica?

[tvenuto]

I think for a good EDC knife, having choices that promote a variety of functions is a good design principle and choils often support that.

If a knife fits you without a choil, I don't see how adding one increases the number or variety of functions that the knife can perform.

[DougC-3]

Late to the party but have a couple of comments. I've only been "into" spydies and choils for under 3 years, but I took to choils early on and frequently favor them. I also sometimes use the front of the Delica's finger guard plus ricasso as a small "available choil," allowing me to do a little bit closer, finer work.

However, I agree that there are already several other knives similar to the Delica that have choils, and if you put one on a Delica, it wouldn't be a Delica anymore. To me the Delica and Endura represent Spyderco classics in their current forms since I'm relatively new. And, as such, since they're very popular stalwarts in the lineup, they should not be changed except to get the usual blade steel and scale type changes and keep their identities as classics. AFAIK a spydie with a choil didn't even exist when the Delica (SKU C11) was introduced in 1990. Just my opinion -- I know we've had the heartbreak of favorite knives getting changed or even discontinued :'(

Thanks for posting this video, Lance, I was beginning to think I was the only person who routinely closed knives this way. And thanks especially for pointing out the need for the convenience of one-handed closing. This was what originally brought me to Spyderco. I was using a right handed knife by another maker which could only be one-hand-closed with the right hand. I bought an ambidextrous Manix 2 but soon found out that the millie and other spydie linerlocks could also be one-hand closed with the left hand.

https://youtu.be/aa2fItisnfs

I'm also very fond of the choil-less Tenacious design and ergos, but I feel a little less secure about the hand staying off the blade than with most knives with choils. Nevertheless I always close it, even with it's very skimpy ricasso, about like you do the Pac Salt -- except, being left handed, I release the liner lock with my left index fingertip, the blade falls over until the ricasso (or kick) hits my fingertip, then close it with my thumb. I do almost all my liner locks that way. Maybe I'll do a demo video for lefties sometime :cool:

[Blerv]

I actually prefer to NOT have a choil whatsoever, but that is 100% dependent on the design of the knife. The handle shape needs to allow the index finger to be very close to the edge but still safe and secure. Some of the best designs made by Spyderco for this are the value folders, i.e. Persistence/Resilience/Tenacious/Ambitious. The edge extends all the way to the handle and the grip extends all the way to the edge. The handle creates a strong enough "guard" that your finger won't slip into the edge, and there's no blade being wasted on a choil. So, when you have a 3 inch blade, you get a 3 inch edge. I really wish more knives were designed this way.

My thoughts exactly. There are many Spydies that sacrifice cutting edge and few that don't (Centofante 3/4, Tenacious line, etc). I know I don't cut many things with the heel of the blade but in the day and age of conservative carry laws I'll take every millimeter I can get...

[Evil D]

I actually prefer to NOT have a choil whatsoever, but that is 100% dependent on the design of the knife. The handle shape needs to allow the index finger to be very close to the edge but still safe and secure. Some of the best designs made by Spyderco for this are the value folders, i.e. Persistence/Resilience/Tenacious/Ambitious. The edge extends all the way to the handle and the grip extends all the way to the edge. The handle creates a strong enough "guard" that your finger won't slip into the edge, and there's no blade being wasted on a choil. So, when you have a 3 inch blade, you get a 3 inch edge. I really wish more knives were designed this way.

My thoughts exactly. There are many Spydies that sacrifice cutting edge and few that don't (Centofante 3/4, Tenacious line, etc). I know I don't cut many things with the heel of the blade but in the day and age of conservative carry laws I'll take every millimeter I can get...

The thing I've always wondered is would that bit of choil be dismissable as part of the handle in court since it doesn't have an edge. Probably not, but it's a nice thought.

[DougC-3]

I actually prefer to NOT have a choil whatsoever, but that is 100% dependent on the design of the knife. The handle shape needs to allow the index finger to be very close to the edge but still safe and secure. Some of the best designs made by Spyderco for this are the value folders, i.e. Persistence/Resilience/Tenacious/Ambitious. The edge extends all the way to the handle and the grip extends all the way to the edge. The handle creates a strong enough "guard" that your finger won't slip into the edge, and there's no blade being wasted on a choil. So, when you have a 3 inch blade, you get a 3 inch edge. I really wish more knives were designed this way.

My thoughts exactly. There are many Spydies that sacrifice cutting edge and few that don't (Centofante 3/4, Tenacious line, etc). I know I don't cut many things with the heel of the blade but in the day and age of conservative carry laws I'll take every millimeter I can get...

The thing I've always wondered is would that bit of choil be dismissable as part of the handle in court since it doesn't have an edge. Probably not, but it's a nice thought.

The fact that the Spyderco catalog always clearly states the edge length as well as the blade length has made me wonder if some places might prosecute you for sharpened steel but not unsharpened steel. That would be logical... but I don't guess I'll get into how logically laws and rules are written and enforced. :rolleyes: Maybe Spyderco is trying to lead the way.

[Evil D]

I actually prefer to NOT have a choil whatsoever, but that is 100% dependent on the design of the knife. The handle shape needs to allow the index finger to be very close to the edge but still safe and secure. Some of the best designs made by Spyderco for this are the value folders, i.e. Persistence/Resilience/Tenacious/Ambitious. The edge extends all the way to the handle and the grip extends all the way to the edge. The handle creates a strong enough "guard" that your finger won't slip into the edge, and there's no blade being wasted on a choil. So, when you have a 3 inch blade, you get a 3 inch edge. I really wish more knives were designed this way.

My thoughts exactly. There are many Spydies that sacrifice cutting edge and few that don't (Centofante 3/4, Tenacious line, etc). I know I don't cut many things with the heel of the blade but in the day and age of conservative carry laws I'll take every millimeter I can get...

The thing I've always wondered is would that bit of choil be dismissable as part of the handle in court since it doesn't have an edge. Probably not, but it's a nice thought.

The fact that the Spyderco catalog always clearly states the edge length as well as the blade length has made me wonder if some places might prosecute you for sharpened steel but not unsharpened steel. That would be logical... but I don't guess I'll get into how logically laws and rules are written and enforced. :rolleyes: Maybe Spyderco is trying to lead the way.

Well they would argue that length is the issue. As an extreme example, you could have a sword with 3 inches of edge and the rest of the blade as a giant choil, so technically there's only 3 inches of blade but the added length would still make something like a stab wound much more dangerous than just a 3 inch blade.

When I was a kid the only law was that the blade could not be longer than the palm of your hand is wide. That was what we were always told growing up and we stuck to it and never got any issues from the police. For much of my youth I carried a balisong which was definitely illegal but like they say if you just stay out of trouble in the first place it may not matter what you're carrying.

[DougC-3]

Well they would argue that length is the issue. As an extreme example, you could have a sword with 3 inches of edge and the rest of the blade as a giant choil, so technically there's only 3 inches of blade but the added length would still make something like a stab wound much more dangerous than just a 3 inch blade.

Ha, this is in keeping with one of my little Spyderco theories. If you hold an opened Stretch and Endura side by side, the points of the finger guards (front edge of the hand area) and the tips of blades match up exactly. So the much more compact Stretch has the effective reach of the almost half inch longer blade of the Endura and would still easily pass a 3.5 inch max length requirement. I've always suspected Sal called it the Stretch because its design stretches its effective length to equal the Endura's.

When I was a kid the only law was that the blade could not be longer than the palm of your hand is wide. That was what we were always told growing up and we stuck to it and never got any issues from the police. For much of my youth I carried a balisong which was definitely illegal but like they say if you just stay out of trouble in the first place it may not matter what you're carrying.

When I was a kid, I don't think we had any knife laws and nobody had ever heard of a balisong :) But we had Italian stilettos and gravity knifes and the occasional paratrooper switchblade. Also bamboo handled "hari kari" (harakiri or seppuku) knives won at carnivals. However, my Dad was a criminal investigator for the state and I got the impression that criminals' weapons were often taken away from them and not returned.

We now have a 4 inch limit where I live, but I have no idea what they would do if they caught you with a longer one. Never heard of it being enforced.

[spyderwolf]

The choil hype is similar with the jimping hype nowadays.Not every knife needs a choil or jimping.There are plenty of knives with choil and/or jimping and talking about options its nice to have some without,especialy a :spyder: clasic like the Delica.

[demoncase]

The choil hype is similar with the jimping hype nowadays.Not every knife needs a choil or jimping.

I hear that one, brother :)

It's like tanto blades, flippers, glass-breakers, camo-coated blades, chisel grinds and spring-assisted openers...For a while most every knife maker (but not Spyderco!) seemed to put one or more of them on every knife.

Then it fades a bit and they are only on those knives where it suits.

[spyderwolf]

Amen to that.

[Bill1170]

Listen to what a dedicated hunter non-Spydie guy told me.Sometimes these guys are not biased and I pay atention to them.After playing with a few of my folders I asked him his opinion and he said that the best design would be a virtual spydie with a Manix2 handle,edge all the way to the handle and a compression lock.What about that ! :cool:

What your hunter friend said makes sense to me. The compression lock is simple and easy to clean out, important for a hunter. The Manix handle is very secure in hand, even wet. Add to that the fact that with edge all the way to the handle, the compression lock would let you close the knife safely without your fingers in the path of the edge.

The one problem I can see with a folder sharpened all the way to the handle is: "How can I effectively sharpen that tang end right to the handle?" Maybe a small sharpening choil at the base? Perhaps it isn't an issue; I don't have any folders that are edge right to the handle, so no experience to go on.

The one application where edge right to the handle (and zero choil, not even a sharpening choil) would be great is when cutting plastic film or fabric. The material wants to ride up into the handle and it would be cleanly cut if the edge went all the way. With an exposed choil or ricasso, the film hangs up there.