S35VN vs. S30V

[Cliff Stamp]

I was under the impression that S35VN is a powder metallurgy steel.

Note that PM steels only refers to one aspect of steel making, it replaces essentially the final casting. The steel still has to go through all the standard methods to mix the alloy, remove impurities, etc. . It is liquid in those stages. PM steels are also processed in the normal way after the HIP, usually cross rolled (or often) because it minimizes anisotropy which is one of the main advantages of PM steels (the have very similar properties when measured along all axis).

[Bill1170]

I see, I think. The niobium carbides make the melt ropy during the molten processing because the foundry can't keep it hot enough to keep them from segregating?

[Cliff Stamp]

The solubility is quite low in austenite even at high temperatures, hence niobium carbide comes out quite early and causes issues with the basic forming processes of pouring or atomizing. More information than you likely ever wanted to know about niobium and vanadium in steels :

- http://www.kau.se/sites/default/files/D ... _18759.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[The Mastiff]

Thanks for the explanation and PDF Cliff. You find some interesting reading materials.

Joe

[Bill1170]

Yes, thank you, Cliff. Fascinating stuff there. That catastrophic oxidation of the 20 mm cubes was impressive.

[Ankerson]

Sorry I know this post is from a while ago, I'm just curious the general feeling out there and don't want to start a new thread. According to some reviews I've been reading S35VN isn't upto the same par as S30V. Since it has been out a while now does anyone one have input on this?

I have been very impressed with S35VN in the later knives I have tested, that's the Native 5, Sebenza 25 and a Custom that I use in the kitchen currently.

Seems the makers have really started to get the HT protocols down and that's a good thing.

S35VN can be pushed into the higher HRC ranges, something that I said from the beginning and some of the Custom makers are in fact doing just that and with excellent results. The kitchen knife I have is 62.5 HRC, .006" behind the edge and the performance is excellent both in testing and real world use.

[Tony18]

They are almost interchangeable.

I would concur with this, now that I have corrected the edge geometry on my Native 5LW! This knife is definitely the worst-ground USA-made Spydie I've had to date: all of my others (Millie, PM2, Manix 2LW) have had very symmetrical grinds and nicely centred tips, this knife had neither. Must have been made on a Friday afternoon :rolleyes:

Bruno

So I'm not the only one, I can't believe how bad mine is. It's literally almost a single bevel.

[Blerv]

So I'm not the only one, I can't believe how bad mine is. It's literally almost a single bevel.

I would have to think it's uncommon or even rare but certainly not impossible.

I've had plenty of odd grinds on Spydies before. Very seldom they aren't functionally very sharp. It's what you get when you sharpen most your blades by hand on power belts, even by skilled folks. I'm guessing the Native5 soon will be set-up to be sharpened by automatons (robots). Maybe it is already and it's a factor of fine tuning the calibration.

Nonetheless...people sharpening a ton of blades per day tend to have a bell curve of results. If you turn down the number of blades produced per day the quality (or consistency) tends to increase along with price. Although, my guess is the consistency isn't increased by 400%.

[Cliff Stamp]

Nonetheless...people sharpening a ton of blades per day tend to have a bell curve of results.

Indeed, however what is unfortunate for manufacturers is that the reported statistics don't follow the same curve. Even though the defects may be unlikely the probability of them being reported is much more likely hence why polling for experiences can often produced a skewed perception. The more extreme the performance the more likely it is to get reported.

[glbpro]

I would have to think it's uncommon or even rare but certainly not impossible.

I've had plenty of odd grinds on Spydies before. Very seldom they aren't functionally very sharp.

So have I, but never from the USA factory. What's more unusual is that I went through all of the pieces in the shop and this was the best one that I could find! Presumably they are still getting used to grinding this relatively new design...

Bruno

[Cliff Stamp]

As a side note, when you do get a knife with an obvious defect, even if you don't want a replacement/refund, it benefits to email/contact customer service and let them know. If Spyderco isn't aware of a problem then they can't fix it.

[glbpro]

Yes Cliff I agree. However, I believe that it's important not to be too picky, especially when it comes to production knives. If the knife is supplied sharp and with a fully functional lock off centre tips and slightly asymmetrical grinds can be forgiven.

I remember Eric saying in a video that when blades are ground by hand there is usually a variation of a degree or so from spec, and this can be quite easy to see even though it has no impact on the knife's cutting ability.

[Max1966]

Hello everybody, I am new to the forum but believe I may have useful knowledge and experience to contribute. I hope you find my posts beneficial.

To answer the S35VN vs. S30V question: you would have to have two identical knives with two identical blades (other than the steel) and test them repeatedly to get a scientific result. That may not happen.

Also, the manner in which they are sharpened is critical, as you would also need the same edge profile on both knives, to a microscopic level. Which would prove difficult.

So, we generally rely on personal experience with different knives, with different edge profiles, to make a comparison. Hardly scientific but possibly useful.

I own a Mora Companion 860MG Stainless Steel Bushcraft Knife with a Sandvik 12C27 stainless steel blade, that IMHO chips too easily. I also have an "unbranded" S30V knife that is perfectly good as a kitchen knife but not what I would use as a utility nor EDC knife, because (again IMHO) the edge is prone to small chips.

I do own a Chris Reeves small Inkosi with the S35VN steel blade. This is what I call a proper universal EDC. The blade takes an edge, keeps it, does not chip (unless you over-sharpen) and can be gently brought back to a great edge if blunted.

I will throw my hat in the ring for S35VN. It is better, and also more expensive.

Blade profile, edge profile and careful honing probably make more difference than the inherent superiority of S35VN over S30V, and 12C27.

[twinboysdad]

[quote="Max1966"]

To answer the S35VN vs. S30V question: you would have to have two identical knives with two identical blades (other than the steel) and test them repeatedly to get a scientific result. /quote]

1. Welcome here
2. Good input
3. To the best I can tell, only the PM2 was offered in both S30V and S35V, and assuming a sharpening system like Wicked Edge for uniformity, this is a possible expirament

[EmperorMA]

Hello everybody, I am new to the forum but believe I may have useful knowledge and experience to contribute. I hope you find my posts beneficial.

To answer the S35VN vs. S30V question: you would have to have two identical knives with two identical blades (other than the steel) and test them repeatedly to get a scientific result. That may not happen.

Also, the manner in which they are sharpened is critical, as you would also need the same edge profile on both knives, to a microscopic level. Which would prove difficult.

So, we generally rely on personal experience with different knives, with different edge profiles, to make a comparison. Hardly scientific but possibly useful.

I own a Mora Companion 860MG Stainless Steel Bushcraft Knife with a Sandvik 12C27 stainless steel blade, that IMHO chips too easily. I also have an "unbranded" S30V knife that is perfectly good as a kitchen knife but not what I would use as a utility nor EDC knife, because (again IMHO) the edge is prone to small chips.

I do own a Chris Reeves small Inkosi with the S35VN steel blade. This is what I call a proper universal EDC. The blade takes an edge, keeps it, does not chip (unless you over-sharpen) and can be gently brought back to a great edge if blunted.

I will throw my hat in the ring for S35VN. It is better, and also more expensive.

Blade profile, edge profile and careful honing probably make more difference than the inherent superiority of S35VN over S30V, and 12C27.

Really not fair to compare the other knives you mention above to a Chris Reeves knife.

"Unnamed S30V" vs Chris Reeves S35VN is kind of like Yugo vs Ferrari.

Compare Chris Reeves small Inkosi in S35VN vs same in S30V.

[Max1966]

I was under the impression that S35VN is a powder metallurgy steel.

Note that PM steels only refers to one aspect of steel making, it replaces essentially the final casting. The steel still has to go through all the standard methods to mix the alloy, remove impurities, etc. . It is liquid in those stages. PM steels are also processed in the normal way after the HIP, usually cross rolled (or often) because it minimizes anisotropy which is one of the main advantages of PM steels (the have very similar properties when measured along all axis).

Yes, S35VN is a PM steel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPM_S30V_steel

As I mentioned, this is a performance/price consideration. My Moraknive cost £15 and the small Inkosi £300. Is the Inkosi 20x better? No. The price difference is not in the utility of the knife but the engineering, artistry and overall quality. Baked beans and caviar :)

From my experience, S35VN is just that bit better than S30V at resisting "chipping" and just that little bit easier to hone. Other than that, I can't tell the difference in everyday use.

twinboysdad - I don't have the time, but if you do that experiment, please post the results!

EmporerMA - you are right, I may get a small Sebanza to compare, but they have different blade profiles.

[Max1966]

Ah, looks like Chris Reeves have dropped S30V?

[dreadpirate]

I have always wondered why Spyderco does not make more S35VN knives. Mostly S30V and VG10.

[fanglekai]

Ah, looks like Chris Reeves have dropped S30V?

Years ago.