Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

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ChrisinHove
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#61

Post by ChrisinHove »

I would hope the original seller has had several 000's worth of free publicity by honouring their end of the deal, anyway.
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#62

Post by SpeedHoles »

Kind of ironic I just saw this thread now. I don't usually bother posting in these debate threads, but just last night I purchased a Green Tenacious from that ebay seller for $19, so I pay and get the confirmations that it is ready to ship, etc. Then today I get an email from ecop saying they are out of stock and have to cancel and refund my purchase, despite having advertised as showing 11 left in stock when I purchased.
Too bad. It wasn't a Chaparral (didn't realize those got put up for $19 as well!?!), but I was still kind of excited to get a Green Tenacious.


Oh, and I have read posts and inquired on a few things from comeuppance in the recent past, and he does seem to have an odd bit of arrogance or something going on.
I think his user avatar there is Mifune Toshiro as Yojimbo...
Going back to Caly.
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#63

Post by PayneTrain »

brian0918 wrote: I tried doing that. I posted several replies with all the evidence, and a couple (but not all) forum members responded favorably. Then a moderator with 77,000 posts came along, deleted all the replies, and gave me a warning. He said I was new there and had no right to tell them how to run their site, that the seller was a paid member of the forum, and they have "no obligation to conform to [my] moral outlook." o_O
Yeah, it'd be one thing if they just scolded you for jamming up a sales thread, but the rest of that is just silly. Ay ay ay. Well after what I just found out my former employer did recently involving firing an employee who was sexually assaulted, Comeuppance and BF are no longer worth my scorn. Get him out of my dungeon, I need the space.
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#64

Post by can't freehand »

Cliff Stamp wrote: they have other forums for that.
The "other forum" policy can be read as an example of paid protection. Sure, technically there's this "other forum" for (ahem) "moral" issues or policy objections, but there's no guarantee anyone is going to pay attention to that forum besides those immediately aware of the issues being discussed (or vigorously prevented from 'discussing'). It can very well be considered a perfunctory board designed purely to disarm objections individuals may have about the integrity of transactions being conducted by their members.

The matter at hand is not a "moral" issue, itself a dubious distinction, its bare-faced fraud. The price at which he purchased the knives was not legitimate, it was essential theft and the punk should have to pay like everyone else. By ignoring the reality of the facts, Bladeforums is complicit, and really its only ever been a source of dysfunction in this "community", overzealous smug moderators and all.
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#65

Post by Cliff Stamp »

can't freehand wrote:
The "other forum" policy can be read as an example of paid protection.
No it can't. I was on BF since the beginning, that isn't how those forums came into play as they were there were paid memberships. If you want to air an issue with a seller then there is a forum specifically made for that purpose separate from the forum where people buy/sell/trade. For people who want to know about a particular seller they can search the GB&U. A lot of people don't care about such things and are willing to buy/sell to a person regardless of the character/nature of said individual.

The rule doesn't simply cover issues such as noted. if you stop into a thread were someone is selling a Strider for $350 and you make a comment that is over priced, or that knife isn't worth that money or any other post which isn't directly related to the sale then the same moderation will happen. Again, that is a forum specifically for sale/trade, not for discussing the knives nor for discussing the seller.
The matter at hand is not a "moral" issue, itself a dubious distinction, its bare-faced fraud. The price at which he purchased the knives was not legitimate, it was essential theft and the punk should have to pay like everyone else. By ignoring the reality of the facts, Bladeforums is complicit, and really its only ever been a source of dysfunction in this "community", overzealous smug moderators and all.
There are multiple issues with this :


-You continue to insult this person which is against the rules of this forum, rules you continue to break simply because you disagree with them, there is pretty heavy irony here

-As noted, the moderation is not limited to this individual, it is a general rule which applies to any kind of issue which you would raise in a for sale/trade post.

Here is the reality of the situation :

-If a seller lists a price and someone accepts the contract, in most jurisdictions, the seller can not at that point in time claim the price was a mistake and void the contract on that basis alone, it should be obvious why this has to be the law because if it wasn't then you could void any contract simply on that basis. In fact the law in most places is even stronger and will enforce a sale even on a promoted contract even if an offer is not made. This is so commonly known that many people who shop look for good which are miss priced because even if tellers see a mistake on the tag/price they can not trivially refuse to check them in because again they are breaching a promoted contract. Again the reason why this has to be the law is to prevent people from promoting one price and then changing them as offers start to come in.

But again, if you can actually site legal statutes for which the buyer in this place committed theft simply because they purchased an item for the promoted sticker price and when through the retail process set up by the seller for such exchanges then I would like to see them.

-It isn't fraud to make claims in selling like "I am taking a loss". Marketing claims in general are not held to rigorous interpretation because people are known to exaggerate with things like "I am going crazy with prices!" . This doesn't really mean that he has a mental issue and it is causing him to lower prices beyond rational, it is just marketing. Similar Cold Steel can say they have the sharpest and strongest knives. You can't charge them with fraud if you show that another company does make sharper knives. It is very common for people in heavy discounts to say things like they are losing money or you are "taking the shirt off their back" or otherwise exaggerate how hard it is to obtain an item, or any other kind of similar claim. Where the law in most jurisdictions will step in is where you make specific performance claims or particular descriptive claims. If you say the knife is made out of ATS-34 and it is 420J2 for example. But for one person to say he is "losing his shirt" on a sale isn't in general going to get him convicted of fraud.

But again, if you can actually site legal statutes for which the buyer in this place committed fraud I would like to see them.

Also, if you can actually make a case that both legal issues can actually be proven then there are places to actually report them which are far more productive than an internet discussion forum.
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#66

Post by GoldenSpydie »

I think it's funny that Cliff was banned from Bladeforums and now tries to defend their policies...:rolleyes:
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#67

Post by Archimedes »

I will never hold being banned from Blade forums against anyone. A lot of really good people have been banned from there. :o :D LOL!!!
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#68

Post by GoldenSpydie »

Archimedes wrote:I will never hold being banned from Blade forums against anyone. A lot of really good people have been banned from there. :o :D LOL!!!
Agreed--I just thought it was kind of funny, so I pointed it out. ;)
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#69

Post by Liquid Cobra »

SpeedHoles wrote:I think his user avatar there is Mifune Toshiro as Yojimbo...
Close. That's Toshiro Mifune as Kikuchiyo from Seven Samurai. I'm a big Kurosawa fan :)
Most recently acquired: Military 2, Paramilitary 2 Tanto x2, YoJUMBO, Swayback, Siren, DLC Yojimbo 2, Native Chief, Shaman S90V, Para 3 LW, Ikuchi, UKPK, Smock, SUBVERT, Amalgam, Para 3 CTS-XHP, Kapara, Paramilitary 2 M390
Grail Paramilitary 2 M390 X 2! ACHIEVED!!

For more of my pictures see my Instagram account.
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#70

Post by PayneTrain »

Wow. I was so sure that guy was black.
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#71

Post by SpeedHoles »

Liquid Cobra wrote:
SpeedHoles wrote:I think his user avatar there is Mifune Toshiro as Yojimbo...
Close. That's Toshiro Mifune as Kikuchiyo from Seven Samurai. I'm a big Kurosawa fan :)

Ah cool, good eye! It's been so long since I've seen any of them. You by chance ever get into any of the old Zatoichi flicks as well?
Going back to Caly.
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#72

Post by Liquid Cobra »

Yeah a little. Owned a sword replica too haha.
Most recently acquired: Military 2, Paramilitary 2 Tanto x2, YoJUMBO, Swayback, Siren, DLC Yojimbo 2, Native Chief, Shaman S90V, Para 3 LW, Ikuchi, UKPK, Smock, SUBVERT, Amalgam, Para 3 CTS-XHP, Kapara, Paramilitary 2 M390
Grail Paramilitary 2 M390 X 2! ACHIEVED!!

For more of my pictures see my Instagram account.
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#73

Post by Bodog »

GoldenSpydie wrote:
Archimedes wrote:I will never hold being banned from Blade forums against anyone. A lot of really good people have been banned from there. :o :D LOL!!!
Agreed--I just thought it was kind of funny, so I pointed it out. ;)

Sometimes they'll ban someone just because they cause controversy rather than being inherently wrong about something. Say you are trying to run a peaceful debate with 100 people involved. There's 1 person disagreeing with the other 99. The 1 is actually correct, level headed, and logical, albeit hard headed and ostentatious and even sometimes pompous, while the 99 are unable to handle the disagreement because they're illogical, immature, and opinionated about the incorrect things. Those 99 take the low road and start BIG disturbances and point to the 1 as the cause even though it's really the 99.

The people running the debate will kick out the 1 to appease the 99. If the people running the debate kicked out the ones actually at fault there'd not be much of an assembly left. There'd be 1 dude sitting there doing nothing.

That's bladeforums and politics in general. Sometimes the community and the agenda are more important than the facts and sometimes the community and the agenda are more important than protecting the innocent.

Look at some of these riots. I'm not looking to debate politics or anything, I'm just talking to make a point. It doesn't matter if the cops were correct or innocently mistaken in their actions. To stop the rioting and bring back peace the cops will be "sacrificed" in order to appease the thugs causing the problems. In a perfect world the thugs would be brought to justice, but if they did that there'd be no one left to keep the community going by buying and selling goods. Sometimes someone innocent gets sacrificed to restore order, especially if they, either correctly or incorrectly, challenge the established authority. That's life.

I honestly believe that's why Sal rarely boots someone and won't let people gang up on controversial people like Cliff. To him he wants people to just talk and learn and be better people. He doesn't let the 99 incorrectly target the 1. He wants the 99 to remain calm so that he doesn't have to do the right thing and ban the 99 who are actually wrong in their behavior. I think Sal would rather have a forum of 10 people who are logical and mature, even if they have quirky personalities, over a forum of 10,000 who are illogical and immature. But that's just an assumption based on what I've seen in my short time here. It's one of the reasons I respect him and his company so much. He'd rather have the facts and decent people win out over the masses' incorrect opinions or petty behavior.
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#74

Post by jtoler_9 »

What was the point of this thread? How is this topic considered Spyderco General discussion? Is this weeks public lynching over yet?

No matter what your feelings on this subject are, I am always amazed how fast people are to cast stones of moral judgment. They must sell computer chairs that elevate much higher than mine.
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#75

Post by tvenuto »

jtoler_9 wrote:What was the point of this thread? How is this topic considered Spyderco General discussion? Is this weeks public lynching over yet?

No matter what your feelings on this subject are, I am always amazed how fast people are to cast stones of moral judgment. They must sell computer chairs that elevate much higher than mine.
Well you just continued it by a page or so, in case you were wondering.

I'm not sure it belongs in Spyderco general Discussion, and I know that what the seller did was not illegal, however I'm glad it was brought up. Now that I have this information, I can choose whether or not to deal with this seller in the future. I'd hardly call pointing out something you feel to be wrong, or calling someone on their BS, to be "casting stones of moral judgement." Call it "trying in the court of public opinion." Facts were hidden, now they're public. Do with this information what you will. Feel free to ignore if it doesn't bother you. Now I think going on a BF crusade is a waste of energy, but like I said I'm glad it was pointed out.
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#76

Post by Pinetreebbs »

jtoler_9 wrote:What was the point of this thread? How is this topic considered Spyderco General discussion? Is this weeks public lynching over yet?

No matter what your feelings on this subject are, I am always amazed how fast people are to cast stones of moral judgment. They must sell computer chairs that elevate much higher than mine.
+1
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#77

Post by Bodog »

"Comeuppance'a giveaway and Mother's Day thread!

ADVERTISEMENT

So, finally doing a giveaway, and, unrelatedly, creating a pool of ideas for Mother's Day (this Sunday!)

The prize: A brand new Stepped Titanium Anodized Chaparral!



The entry rules:
- You must have joined at least a month ago (4/6/15) and have at least 100 posts.
- All official entries must have "This is my official entry" in the post.
- Post your plans or just an idea for Mother's Day! You don't HAVE to, but who wants to be the freeloader?
- You can make additional posts, but only your initial "This is my official entry" will count. One entry per person. I'll use a random number generator to pick the winner.
- Last entry will be 11:59PM Saturday night, 5/9/15. Winner will be chosen sometime Sunday.
- You must not have won a giveaway on this forum in the last 6 months.

If I've missed some kind of obvious standard rule for this kind of thing, please let me know.

My contribution: I got my mother a Spyderco Santoku kitchen knife, and I'll be taking her to a local Vietnamese restaurant she has been wanting to go to."
They who dance are thought mad by those who do not hear the music.
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#78

Post by Bodog »

"Post your plans or just an idea for Mother's Day! You don't HAVE to, but who wants to be the freeloader?"

At least he doesn't want people to be freeloaders.

I wonder if he'd honor his own gaw if he accidentally sent out a 1500 dollar RJ Martin instead of a knife he bought for 20 bucks.
They who dance are thought mad by those who do not hear the music.
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#79

Post by Surfingringo »

meh, I entered. Maybe I'll win it and return it to ecop! :)
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Re: Ebay seller flipping Stepped Blue Titanium Chaparral's that he got for $19 each

#80

Post by SpyderNut »

Surfingringo wrote:meh, I entered. Maybe I'll win it and return it to ecop! :)
:D lol
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