Sharpening forum

[Cliff Stamp]

If it's something that would cost Spyderco significant resources I'd be dubious if it was me making the decision.

It doesn't take significant time/resources to add a sub-forum, it is completely trivial. If you want to back filter everything (move all of the threads) then it isn't completely trivial but even that would not take very long if you were a programmer as you would just write a script and move posts based on keywords. A competent data base programmer could literally do that in 5-10 minutes.

The upside of a heavily segmented forum is that information gets really focused and people who are only interested in certain topics can just look there. There are people who don't actually use knives but are interested in the collecting market. They would likely appreciate a new forum where Spyderco just puts up sprint runs, new knives, and discontinued knives. This would be where you would post old knives and ask for information.

However just look where that goes if you keep doing it. The person who is generally interested in Spyderco has almost the exact opposite reaction. Note you can combine them by having a sub-divided forum however have a way for members to look at all new thread started. This way the person who wants to look at everything can and the person who wants to look at just a particular forum can. This isn't difficult either, a competent programmer can do that in the same 5-10 minutes.

I set up a simple link for example that you can see all new posts. A lot of people just use that and they see all new activity and you can adjust it for the number of new posts. Some people never use that as they are only interested in certain parts and not in others so they only ever look at particular sub-forums.

[Cliff Stamp]

Does he have a nice bedside manner......absolutely not......

Careful, I can stop the payments as easily as I started them.

[jabba359]

The upside of a heavily segmented forum is that information gets really focused and people who are only interested in certain topics can just look there. There are people who don't actually use knives but are interested in the collecting market. They would likely appreciate a new forum where Spyderco just puts up sprint runs, new knives, and discontinued knives. This would be where you would post old knives and ask for information.

However just look where that goes if you keep doing it. The person who is generally interested in Spyderco has almost the exact opposite reaction. Note you can combine them by having a sub-divided forum however have a way for members to look at all new thread started. This way the person who wants to look at everything can and the person who wants to look at just a particular forum can. This isn't difficult either, a competent programmer can do that in the same 5-10 minutes.

Why should the "collectors" have to have a new forum made for them? They already have the "Spyderco General Discussion", a section dedicated to "Spyderco's products and history." The new section you are suggesting is exactly what we have already had for many years and describes the sort of threads that belong in the Spyderco General Discussion (not that it should be limited to "people who don't actually use knives"). Implying that these collectors "don't actually use knives" is a stereotype anyway. There are plenty here that both use AND collect (myself included).

What I think is being suggested is that the Spyderco General Discussion has been highjacked for more general purpose topics (though still cutlery related), but that this strays from the intent of the Spyderco General Discussion forum as a tool for finding and providing past and current information on Spyderco products. So the "new" forum should serve those that aren't specifically interested in the Spyderco aspects. Ergo, I think it makes sense to have one additional sub forum where general knife topics can be discussed without them having to specifically relate to Spyderco (the Off-topic sub forum seems to be too unrelated to knives at all, so isn't a particularly good home for these other knife/sharpening discussions). I think that if there were a Knives, Sharpening and Steel sub forum that it would get quite a bit of traffic while adding a bit of missing organization to the forums.

The operative word here is organization. It's NOT about trying to suppress science. It's NOT trying to turn it into a shill forum where Spyderco makes everything a big ad just to sell more knives. It's NOT about making a place where only collectors go to look at their pretty knives and then lock them away to never use them. It IS about trying to make that information more organized and easy to casually browse.

*disclaimer* This is my understanding of it, but as I'm not a representative employed by Spyderco, it's entirely possible I'm misunderstanding the intent of an additional sub forum.

[Cliff Stamp]

The new section you are suggesting is exactly what we have already had for many years and describes the sort of threads that belong in the Spyderco General Discussion (not that it should be limited to "people who don't actually use knives").

I didn't argue that it should be made, what I said was that if it was made then a certain sub-group would likely appreciate it. I then noted that you could continue this process and the same would hold, sub-groups who were interested in those posts would appreciate it. However the more you did this the more that people who were in general interested would have the opposite perspective, they would steadily dislike the changes. Hence why i suggested if you are going to segment that you add back in a way to have an over view for those who want to look at all new topics.

[jabba359]

I get that you didn't realistically suggest that the people who collect Spydercos should be removed from the Spyderco General forum and given their own sub forum. Of course it makes no sense to do that. I just don't get why you included such an illogical example as a way to support your view. I agree with you that we don't need to micro-organize things and that it could quickly get out of hand. I only brought it up because it's not very likely that adding an additional subforum will devolve into adding more and more and more sub forums until the point that anything resembling your example would occur.

That said, do you think it would be beneficial to add a single additional forum section dedicated to the furthering of general knife and sharpening topics, one that would not need to be specifically related to Spyderco and it's products? Is there any reason that organizing the information into those two distinctions would be a negative?

As you said, a good portion of the people here are interested not only in Spyderco knives, but also steels, specific sharpening techniques, etc and I think a dedicated sub forum would receive a good amount of traffic while leaving the Spyderco General Discussion forum more accessible to the casual internet citizen who might decide to drop in and see what Spyderco is all about. You provide tons of great information, but there is a lot of technical discussion and huge sections of text that might be intimidating to those that are just dropping by and may scare off the beginners. Just a thought.

[Cliff Stamp]

I just don't get why you included such an illogical example as a way to support your view.

I did a quick check on Benchmade and Cold Steel forums to look at how segmented they are. Benchmade has that specific forum and it has a odd/funny name. These are actually interesting examples to look at as they are really segmented, they have many sub-forums and they often have as small as a few active threads in each.

That said, do you think it would be beneficial to add a single additional forum section dedicated to the furthering of general knife and sharpening topics, one that would not need to be specifically related to Spyderco and it's products? Is there any reason that organizing the information into those two distinctions would be a negative?

I think negative is a bit harsh, but I find the idea odd because Spyderco makes a sharpener and in fact they openly promote they made sharpeners first so it is a bit odd to make this a sub-forum.

[jabba359]

I don't think "negative" is harsh at all. Adding a sub forum is going to have positive benefits as well as negative. Some negatives I can think of would include: additional forum oversight time would be needed to keep the topics properly organized, people would be less likely to accidentally stumble into a thread that they might ultimately find interesting (as they would have to first accidentally stumble into the sub forum before continuing their stumbling into the thread), and has potential to add some amount of confusion as to where they should post if they're not sure how Spyderco related it is. I only asked what negatives you saw because you seem to be against the idea, so I was wondering what particulars cause you to feel that way.

I concur that adding a specific sharpening sub forum is odd, but my question wasn't about that. I asked whether you saw merit in a single sub forum that is about General knife AND sharpening topics (that are not specifically Spyderco related), a much broader scope of topics.

[Cliff Stamp]

Cliff does have a forum dedicated to sharpening, testing, and himself...

I normally don't respond to much of this, but just as an example of how most of these arguments are not only simply false they show conclusions which are formed with no justification at all. Here is the actual reason why I have a forum.

Noss used to have a pretty active forum and it had a pretty decent sized / active group. He decided to close it down when he basically retired from the Internets. A number of people wanted a similar place where they could discuss knives in an open/fair manner without having to deal with extreme fans and/or over zealous maker/manufacturer censorship. For quite awhile I got emails asking me to set up a forum as I used to run one. I set one up under the clear policy that it had a very few but zero-tolerance rules :

-there are no ad hominem arguments
-no soap boxing

The forum covers a wide variety of topics including music, religion, morality, and other things which have nothing to do with knives.
I do of course talk about knives however so do quite a lot of other people. Not all of them are into "testing", some of the most prolific posters are not really into any kind of evaluation and just like to talk about what they find interesting, enjoy to use or just find funny/amusing. A few guys have almost no contribution other than the fact they like to come into threads and make jokes.

[Cliff Stamp]

I only asked what negatives you saw because you seem to be against the idea, so I was wondering what particulars cause you to feel that way.

I am neutral/ambivalent hence why I would not say it is negative. I don't feel it is necessary for reasons I have noted previously (the active topics don't span more than one page) however I would not eat every chicken in the room if it happened.

If it got really segmented like Cold Steel I would say it was negative. They have ~three dozen sub-forums and the active threads can be as small as 1-2 topics.

[The Mastiff]

It doesn't take significant time/resources to add a sub-forum, it is completely trivial....

On some programs that are used for these type places new discussion areas can be added with a few mouse clicks from the admin. I don't know what they are running here and wouldn't talk about it if I did. I guess I don't mind answering a question from Sal or Kristi but I don't feel qualified in trying to influence what is a decision for them to make.

I've stated in the past though that if there is a interesting thread I will find it wherever it is. It doesn't matter which area it's in to me. I'll glean whatever Information Is laying around here and don't mind turning over a few rocks to find it . I feel pretty fortunate to have the opportunity to be honest.

Joe

[ChrisinHove]

British Blades has a "Today's Posts" link, which is quite useful.

However, I am ambivalent about the idea of a separate Technical or Sharpening forum, particularly as it is not the remedy for bad behaviour.

The technical information that several people post here is often superb, and any discussion applied to those posts should ideally be of a standard to do it justice but this can not be really guaranteed (or demanded) in a non scientific/technical arena.

I do not welcome vociferous demands or hectoring for absolute impartiality (on a manufacturers forum) and/or highest levels of scientific/logic rigour which may result. It has been demonstrated time and time again on previous threads that this can poison the conversation and deter involvement, both in the threads, and now it would appear, in the entire forum.

[Brunzenstein48]

I stay away from forums getting off theme and personal

[jimmyjohnjohn]

If my vote counts, no, I would not make a separate sharpening forum. Dilution is not necessary and would be anti-productive.

[anagarika]

To me, Spyderco & sharpening always go hand in hand, and lots of users are actually content/happy with practical sharpening tools available. Keeping such tips in General is ok in my view, with threads by Chuck, JD, Cliff, Jim, Jack, providing useful tricks.

Beyond practical sharpening, there are other places one can go: MT & E on BF (but not Spyderco specific) where you can go crazy, also Cliff forum, hypefreeblade, etc.

More importantly for my need: the ability to see who started a thread in a Desktop way when using mobile (unfortunately Kristi says not possible ) because that's how I select what topic to read. That applies to both General & Off Topic (and yes, Byrd too).

[PayneTrain]

No, I am not interested in a sharpening forum. I don't think the traffic here warrants more subforums. General can span two or three days sometimes on the first page. I think things are fine the way they are. If it's a Spyderco related sharpening topic, it can go in General. If it isn't, I believe it belongs in Off Topic. I don't want this place to turn into Knifeforums, with 57640834 subforums that haven't had a post since 2012. Unless the current layout isn't accommodating the volume, leave it be.

[Tdhurl1103]

I don't care if sharpening is separate, but it seems silly that it might be. There are so many ways I could make fun of this idea, but I'll refrain from it.

So you never ever sharpened your knife, its not within your universe, you stay in principle away from a sharp knife nor needed you ever any hint sharpening the very item here in discussion - as you never ever need such a thing as a properly maintained knife - right?
:)

I'm pretty sure you misinterpreted his post.

Yes, they did.

I sharpen my knives, and have done so for years. If they want to consolidate sharpening information, its fine by me. I just think the idea of a whole separate forum silly. My opinion of course, and doesn't mean much. Rock on!! :D

[Brunzenstein48]

I just think the idea of a whole separate forum silly. My opinion of course, and doesn't mean much. Rock on!! :D

I don't think your kind argument holds any water. Scientific approach to technical questions on any Spydercore's equipment (as sharpening tool are) is far more interesting then showing anyone's newest buy to anonymous others.
"I show you mine - you show me yours" is in my view (on an item easily found in the producers catalogue) the most silly and basically content free approach possible - thought this is met here every day.

Just my two cents

[Surfingringo]

I just think the idea of a whole separate forum silly. My opinion of course, and doesn't mean much. Rock on!! :D

I don't think your kind argument holds any water. Scientific approach to technical questions on any Spydercore's equipment (as sharpening tool are) is far more interesting then showing anyone's newest buy to anonymous others.
"I show you mine - you show me yours" is in my view (on an item easily found in the producers catalogue) the most silly and basically content free approach possible - thought this is met here every day.

Just my two cents

Swing and a miss. Strike two. Brunzenstein, I believe tdhurl is simply expressing that he believes a new sub forum is unnecessary and sharpening threads fit just fine in general where they are right now.

Apologies for speaking for you tdhurl...hope I didn't miss the mark.

[Tdhurl1103]

I just think the idea of a whole separate forum silly. My opinion of course, and doesn't mean much. Rock on!! :D

I don't think your kind argument holds any water. Scientific approach to technical questions on any Spydercore's equipment (as sharpening tool are) is far more interesting then showing anyone's newest buy to anonymous others.
"I show you mine - you show me yours" is in my view (on an item easily found in the producers catalogue) the most silly and basically content free approach possible - thought this is met here every day.

Just my two cents

Holds water? Are you mifted at me for some reason? Is it my lazy attitude concerning this subject that bothers you? Yes, I understand the scientific and technical side of this issue, so don't patronize me, please. It's really fine by me if you want your own space. I'm sure I would learn something there. I've learned a lot about a myriad of things in General Discussion though.

By your own argument "show you mine - you show me yours," threads that you seem to detest, are you so certain we wouldn't see sort of the same thing in Sharpening? (by the way, this is the silly part I've been eluding to, but no one else here wants to say it)

Topic: Using the Sharpmaker on the Military Cruwear
Topic: Using the Sharpmaker on the SB Stretch
Topic: Using the Sharpmaker on a really dull knife, what do I do? (times this one by infinity)
Topic: General Questions about everything Sharpmaker
Topic: New Spyderco collector: How do I sharpen a Delica SE using the Sharpmaker (times this one by infinity)

Those topic premonitions, which are just the tip of the iceberg, might be a harsh way to tell you but, Your argument does not hold water.

Just my two cents

[Tdhurl1103]

I just think the idea of a whole separate forum silly. My opinion of course, and doesn't mean much. Rock on!! :D

I don't think your kind argument holds any water. Scientific approach to technical questions on any Spydercore's equipment (as sharpening tool are) is far more interesting then showing anyone's newest buy to anonymous others.
"I show you mine - you show me yours" is in my view (on an item easily found in the producers catalogue) the most silly and basically content free approach possible - thought this is met here every day.

Just my two cents

Swing and a miss. Strike two. Brunzenstein, I believe tdhurl is simply expressing that he believes a new sub forum is unnecessary and sharpening threads fit just fine in general where they are right now.

Apologies for speaking for you tdhurl...hope I didn't miss the mark.

No, you are right on SG. It's all good. But he threw down the gauntlet by patronizing me, and everyone else here. So I replied.